Security arrangements on an outward opening stable door?

[Tom]

I have the locksmith coming round next week to measure up for a lock for my front door. Whilst he's here, I'd like him to take a look at what I need for my back door (the 'everyday' door), which is an outward opening stable door. What sort of locks, latches, catches, bolts etc should I have to make it function properly? Currently it's held shut from the inside with a piece of baler twine from the hinge, wrapped around a nail in the wall. From the outside, it's rammed shut with a piece of wood between it and the scaffolding. Clearly not a good long-term solution :roll: I already have a 6" cranked bolt for the top of the bottom half and a kick-bolt for the bottom of the bottom half but what's the best way to lock the top and bottom halves together? I'm confused about what I should be using :shock: Does anyone else have an outward opening stable door?

Jaqy

 

[JoceAndChris]

Sorry I haven't had a chance to emial you pics of our outward opening door lock. If you put in how can I get in and out of my porch in the search box of the discussion forum I'm pretty sure there are photos on there of it.

 

[Tom]

Hi Joce

I've had a look through that thread and it seems that almost every other door is there but not the one with the locking mechanism...unless I've gone blind :lol: I'm not in a huge hurry for this but if you don't mind sending me a picture of it when you have a minute I'd be extremely grateful

Hope you're having a good weekend
Jaqy

 

[JoceAndChris]

Sorry,ignore what I just said I remember editing those photos out now. Will email you proerly when not on a stupid iPhone !

 

[Schoolmarm]

Sliding bolt, positioned pointing downwards to join top door to bottom door. Fixed near the opening edge.

That is what I have done with our split door to the coalshed.

It needs to be the kind you lock in an open position by turning the bolt sideways.

 

[Tom]

Thanks, Schoolmarm. I know exactly what you mean. Much appreciated

Jaqy

 

[Schoolmarm]

This also comes in handy for turning a two part door into a one piece door. I leave mine joined most of the time and just bob in and out using the thumb latch.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Jaqy,

Check with your insurance company - they will stipulate what you need. You should make sure you pass muster with them - in case someone breaks in through the stable door and your insurance is invalidated by your locks. We have the Schoolmarm-type affair above too.

Robin

 

[Tom]

Hi Robin

At the moment we're on site insurance only, so they're not interested in locks. I've no idea who we'll insure with when we're done.

I think this door is perhaps more secure than most, being outward opening. I wonder why people have inward opening doors that can be kicked / rammed in, if they could have outward opening ones instead.

Does anyone have any idea of what locks might be required by a standard insurance company?

Jaqy

 

[Feltwell]

I think this door is perhaps more secure than most, being outward opening. I wonder why people have inward opening doors that can be kicked / rammed in, if they could have outward opening ones instead.

The weak point on outward opening doors is the hinges - the knuckle of the hinge is exposed on the outside of the door and is vulnerable to attack. You can either fit special hinges that have protuding pins that interlock (I can't remember what the hinges are called.....) or standard hinges plus hinge bolts - which is probably an easier option - like these:-

http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Hinge_Bolts_.html

My insurance company wanted these, plus either a 5 lever BS approved mortice lock or mortice rack bolts top & bottom. We don't have to be able to lock this door from the outside so I fitted mortice rack bolts:-

http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Era_838_Mortice_Door_Bolt_.html

As it's a stable door, if you wanted to make it really strong and you didn't need to be able to lock it from the outside, or use it as a fire exit, then 4 mortice rack bolts - 1 each top and bottom of each door section - would lock it very securely into the frame, if combined with 4 hinge bolts (again 1 each top and bottom of each door section)

 

[Flyfisher]

I think insurance companies will specify lock requirements on the 'last exit' door but may be more relaxed about others, on the basis that these can all be bolted internally such that there are no external locks on them. I once had to fit mortice 'rack bolts' to double external doors in a conservatory (with external lock) to comply with insurance requirements.

But good advice from FW; confirm the requirements with the insurance company to avoid any dispute should the worse case occur.

 

[Schoolmarm]

The funniest thing about my home security is that no matter how good my doors are/aren't , all a thief has to do to gain silent entry, is pull the rubber seal out of my plastic windows :shock:

 

[Tom]

Oh dear, I'm afraid you've lost me here I don't understand what these do or how they work <feeling distinctly dim>

You can see the door below. Although this is the 'back' door, it's the one that will be used all the time. I need to be able to lock this from both inside and outside. Does this help in determining what I need on it?

 

[Schoolmarm]

I think it needs a lovely big box lock thing on the inside with a keyhole on the outside. It needs to be on the top door.

But something needs to be done on the hinge side or they will unscrew the hinges or lift it all off.

Off to find a link

 

[Schoolmarm]

Something like this but more substantial and to match your house


http://www.antiquedoorfittings.co.uk/ourshop/cat_57444-002strongLocksstrong.html

 

[Michelle73]

Thanks for the excellent link Schoolmarm, just found out that the lock fitting on my living room door is Victorian and worth £255!!
Must now go identify the others throughout the house

 

[FamilyWiggs]

You can see the door below. Although this is the 'back' door, it's the one that will be used all the time. I need to be able to lock this from both inside and outside. Does this help in determining what I need on it?

Jaqy,

I think you do need to talk to an insurance company, and maybe a locksmith or the local bobby and get a security check. That door looks lovely but decidely unsafe! Those hinges come off very easily I would imagine. Can you reverse the door to open inwards - you'd still get the hinges and nice door effect, but less prone to attack?

Our insurance company insist on 5-lever mortice locks on all external doors. These are horrible modern things, and I'd much prefer some of the nice stuff from the website Carole linked to. When I get the chance I'll work on the company and try and get some sense.

The whole thing is a bit pointless - given there is nothing much you can do to stop the very determined burglar and the more your strengthen the doors the more damage they do gaining entry; usually via the window. I guess one of those "rottweiler inside" signs and a dog-bark alarm is the best deterrent.

 

[Schoolmarm]

It does peeve me that doors are so important to insurance companies when windows are so easy to get through.

 

[Tom]

Jaqy,

I think you do need to talk to an insurance company, and maybe a locksmith or the local bobby and get a security check. That door looks lovely but decidely unsafe! Those hinges come off very easily I would imagine.

The hinges are bolted on the inside. I appreciate your concern but these cannot be removed from the outside.

It annoys me, too, how insurance underwriters are so focussed on the security of doors :evil: A determined burglar will always gain entry.....it's the opportunist we should look at stopping.

Jaqy

 

[JoceAndChris]

If I was a burglar, I'd take one look at all your dogs and geese and go next door! :lol: