saving sash windows in Oxford

[Anonymous]

Not sure whether this is of use to anyone here, I know the subject of sash windows crops up often, however this is more a plea for a saviour. On my travels today on the Cowley road in Oxford I saw another victorian house today fallen to the plastic obsession, it was under "modernisation" and no one was around, the original windows were lying in piles in the front garden, managed to persuade SWMBO to stop for a quick look, boxes looked to have had weights removed and were mostly in poor condition (from removal not due to age) but several were relatively intact and could probably be fixed. However all sashes were intact and even relatively neatly stacked, could they be of use to somone here? Didn't have time or facilities to get any sizes but they were obviously way out for me to make use of and SWMBO has decreed we have no space to store things like this on the off chance, and unfortuantely she's right. Would be nice to think that someone in the area might need them and can stop by and pick them up and even put them to use?? They looked very sound to me. Always a shame to see such vandalism going on, especially as I'm taking the time to reverse this on my house, yes unfortuantely I have plastic windows, although not by choice and not for much longer.

 

[Anonymous]

If you're taking placcy windows out and you've found these re-usable sash windows.... aren't they any good for your house?

Or does She have an opinion about this?

(Always nice to meet a Rider Haggard aficionado!)

 

[Anonymous]

I've been hunting for a long time for windows (on ebay) and now have all I need, apart from two, and I now have the oak to make these, it's another one of these tuits. This also explains SWMBO's reluctance to get more, she also prefers the original sashes to plastic, well she does now I've had a chat with her.
Looking at these ones today the sizes of the sashes were obviously either too big, from the main part of the bay, or too small, from the sides of the bay for my use. Modification of these would probably be as much work as making new, unless someone knows better? Shame really as I'm sure it's pretty decent wood

 

[Anonymous]

And nice historic glass too no doubt...

 

[Anonymous]

Quite possibly there was original glass in them, could only see a few of them clearly however these had modern flat glass in and had been chopped about a bit.

Anyway SWMBO didn't want to linger in the snow too long, can't blame her. May just end up going back tomorrow to see if I can find someone there and ask about removing them. Would people here consider it acceptable to just take them, if I can't find anyone? They're not (yet) in a skip but not sure if dumped in front garden is considered fair game?

 

[Anonymous]

It's theft even from a skip I fear - ask first!

Placcy windows... grrrr.

 

[Anonymous]

I always thought of skips as fair game, have accrued some nice bits from skips, last lot were some nice victorian roof timbers 10ft long with a 6" x 4" cross section, 4 of them, which will come in very useful I'm sure, they're very nice timber, only a 100 years or so of seasoning.
Ayway I'll see if I can find someone to ask, no one there today and as it's going to be a special journey will try to time it when I think there's maximum likehood of a builder/owner being there, mid morning or mid afternoon I think. Might have to resort to a letter through the door with a phone no.

 

[Anonymous]

What is fair game and what is lawful may be two different things!

It's dreadful the removal of timber windows and replacement with placcy - everywhere is being ruined.

 

[Anonymous]

Very true, and as these aren't in a skip I'd have a hard time justifying to myself let alone any constable wandering past that these were fair game.
It's a great shame about the placcy windows, the new ones don't resemble the old ones in anyway (as is usual) but given almost all the rest of the row of houses are placcy they must be feeling like they're keeping up with Joneses. Oh well if I can get them and put them to some use here that would be good, may have to work extra hard to make sure I can adapt them to fit the boxes here once I've removed the plastic.

 

[Anonymous]

I fear the only way to convince people not to remove old windows and doors is to show them the 'cost saving' over 10 years - ie nothing.

It really is demented that people would rather spend thousands replacing all their windows and doors in preference to spending hundreds getting them repaired, and then a few hundred quid over the lifetime of plastic windows in increased heating bills.

People just don't seem to be able to think long-term. I am personally convinced that plastic windows do not make financial sense in the long run.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree people don't think long term, all the repairs I'm doing to my house I'm taking a view I want them to last 100 years+, therefore using tried and tested techniques and materials.
As for the windows, it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to double glaze as far as I can see there are other much more effective ways to save energy and reduce carbon emissions.
According to my calculations double glazing my sitting room window saves me ~90W
U value single glazing 5W/M^2/K
U value double glazing 2W/M^2/K
therefore saving 3W per square metre per degree difference
Given the window is 1.5M^2 that gives 4.5W difference per degree, using the standard 20C inside 0C outside that gives 90W and it's rarely like that for long now. I can save that 90W by putting in 2 low energy bulbs instead of normal ones and that saves energy all year round, not just when it's cold.
Then given the fact wooden windows are totally repairable and plastic are not easily, if at all, repairable, means you may need to fully replace the plastic before the 40 year payback time.
I think once you explain that to people they will hopefully think twice about replacing windows, all that's needed is to draught proof which is the major difference everyone quotes on having double glazing in, but it's not the double glazing that removes the draughts I know I can show you some double glazed plastic windows that have major draughts, mine, they are so badly fitted several have gaps I can see through when they're locked shut.

 

[Anonymous]

There aws an article in last week's Architect's Journal which was questioning the research on which Part L was based - I only hd a chance to galnce though and I have left it in London!

I agree - I also think if you add up all the costs of manufacture, transport, factory, then replcement in nearer future then the supposed energy saving I am less than convinced about.

Most worrying is the fact that HM Gov is again considering legislation which would mean any work - ie a small extension or a conservatory - on a house would trigger 'upgrading' of the rest, to meet agreed energy CO2 etc targets, which they are failing to meet. Obviously listed buildings would be exempt but buildings not listed but of historic or architectural merit could end up being required to add all manner of difficult and unsuitable things. Like new windows! New boilers!

Why not stop cheap flights and switch of some street lighting?

 

[Anonymous]

My neighbour already had to do that! despite being an early C19 house in a conversation area (but not listed) to get planning permission for a small extension they had to either, have ridicululously small windows or upgrade the rest of the house to double glazing.. If just the extension needed dg she could have had them made in wood and kept the rest of her windows, but as she had to replace them all to meet insulation requirements she ended up with upvc + placcy glazing bars.. she hates them! and the bars are already falling off..

 

[Anonymous]

This is our predicament. Nice old house, only us wants to look after it.
I wanted to move the Rayburn back against a wall. To do this meant shortening some water pipes. I also wanted to remove two radiators from the kitchen. They are never on.
Two Engoineers have both said once they start messing with the water they will have to ensure our house meets the latest plumbing and heating requirements, which would mean replacing some radiators, changing the immersion, fitting thermostatic valves to the radiator, some plumbing work to the tanks, blah de blah de blah.

Now we want to remove and change some radiators, but haven't the inclination to do it now, we want to do it when we do those rooms..... apparently filling land fill sites with perfectly good equipment is better for the country <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think that the regs actually state that you have to do the rest of the house... although it's all so b**dy complex and iffy. Maybe your friend should have called SPAB, checked this all out, and argued with Building Control?

 

[Anonymous]

Bit late now as the wooden windows are long gone.. don't know if it is technically a legal requirement or was just the council using the opportunity to throw there weight around a bit.. part L was mentioned with some venom when i talked to her about it.. At least they weren't the 200+ year old yourkshire sashes you can see in old pics as these sadly are long gone, would have been quite nice 1950's-ish small pane ones that at least suit the building.. the upvc show up like a sore thumb in the row <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/frown.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't think the whole house approach applied yet, and certainly not for extensions, maybe for new builds. Oh well it seems that we all better get our work on houses done, extending them etc now before the regs get even more onerus.
You do have to wonder what's going to happen the majority of our historic buildings, seems the goverment is set on converting them all, through it's rules, into noddy boxes.

 

[Anonymous]

I got the impression it was somthing to do with the large amount of window in the extension, its virtually a brick built slate roofed conservatory with large windows on all 3 sides (a sun room apparently). She said she could have kept her oldwindows if she sacrificed most of the windows in her new bit which would have been too much of a compromise for her as she would have been losing the features she most wanted (and hiding others, one side faces out onto a gorgeous old flint wall they want to see rather than hide behind a brick wall)

 

[Anonymous]

Would be interesting to find out what the article mentioned, as I'm of the opinion that when the whole life cycle energy costs are taken into account they would be much of a muchness, and therefore a good reason not to create extra waste by throwing things away uneccesarily and before the end of their life (if windows ever have an end of life as they can be repaired)
Given the flawed numbers the government used to get the Part P regulations through it wouldn't surprise me if the Part L had big flaws as well.

 

[Anonymous]

DIY - plumbing ain't so hard. Honest. Just don't tell plumbers that. <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">