saturated brick plinths.

[robgil]

among other things on my survey saturated brick plinths on internal and external walls. its a timber framed building.
could this be caused by concrete floors? i also suspect concrete/cement render may not be helping very much.
any thoughts?

 

[JoceAndChris]

What are your plans for the cement render? Can it come off do you think?

I've got soggy plinths as well. French drains are on the (very long) Things To Do list. But it's the cement render that's the main culprit.

Examining buried pipework reveals further problems. Damp comes from all over, the cumulative effect is pretty bad. You need to look at every possible source and do what you can to remedy it.

 

[robgil]

the render has blown in places joce so it will need patched although i will need to take it off around the bottom of the house to see what state the timbers beneath are in. i suspect the soul plates have suffered if the brick plinth is saturated.
also , there is a concrete path around the house which will have to be lifted , then the ground beneath lowered to below inside floor level and after that i will look at drainage.
i am concerned about the cement floors inside because i dont really want to be lifting them up before i have some reclaimed bricks to put in their place.
and judging by some of the quotes for the roof repair we wont have enough money left over for very much so i am trying to prioritise cash expenditure for the things that really need to be done , such as the roof.

 

[CHRIS]

among other things on my survey saturated brick plinths on internal and external walls. its a timber framed building.
could this be caused by concrete floors? i also suspect concrete/cement render may not be helping very much.
any thoughts?

Yes almost certainly along with high ground levels around the outside will cause problems, the process of removing the render can be quite dodgy as you can cause a lot of damage. So go easy.

The sole plate will be like dust so only do a bit at a time as you will have to jack the building to rebuild it correctly. See an old episode of the Restoration program that our Friend Middi was on for a good look at that sort of problem.

A building on Acro props is a sight and not for the faint hearted

i am concerned about the cement floors inside because i dont really want to be lifting them up before i have some reclaimed bricks to put in their place.
and judging by some of the quotes for the roof repair we wont have enough money left over for very much so i am trying to prioritise cash expenditure for the things that really need to be done , such as the roof.

you will need to leave it to dry before you reinstate so why not dig it out and lay some crushed aggregate and whacker it down - this gives a better floor than a muddy mess to work in and also drains and dries while you are doing the rest of the work ( I hope you are not living there whilst the work is going on?)

 

[Penners]

saturated brick plinths ...could this be caused by concrete floors?

Almost certainly. Ground moisture is unable to permeate through the concrete, so it migrates sideways and ends up soaking into the plinth. If there is cement rendering on the plinth, then that will, of course, trap the moisture inside it.

The solution is to hack the rendering off the plinth, both internally (assuming that a fair propertion of the plinth sits above floor level) and externally, in order to let it breathe. Ideally you should also replace your concrete floors with something breathable. Sounds easy when you say it quickly, doesn't it?

Ground moisture from outside the house may also be contributing to your wet plinth. To manage this better, the best idea is probably to dig a French drain around the outside of the house, with a porous pipe ducting the water to a soakaway well away from the house.

As with any damp problem, it's best to adopt a step-by-step approach. In your situation, I think my first step would be to hack the rendering off the plinth, inside and out. Then give it several months to dry out and see how it goes. If you can do this as soon as possible, the summer months should help the drying process. Go carefully with your hacking - avoid damaging the brickwork.

While you're doing this, it would be an idea to expose the sole plate in a few places, to see what sort of condition it's in. The main worry with a timberframe house that has a damp plinth is whether there is serious rot in the sole plate.

 

[MdB]

A building on Acro props is a sight and not for the faint hearted

Oh I don't know, you get used to it after a while:

 

[Penners]

MdB - having see that same shot of your house some months ago, I'm beginning to suspect that you like it like that. :shock:

 

[robgil]

thanks guys , the acro thing isn't scaring me , its ms robgil that scares me when she finds out our house will need propped up on steel poles.
i think i need to pull the concrete floors up and put down something else.
if there is a porous floor down and no dpc whats to stop the humidity levels in the house becoming problematic?

edit = this is the one and only pic ive got of an interior plinth , as you can see the render is crumbling but i have no idea yet as to the condition of the brick underneath.

 

[Matt Green]

i think i need to pull the concrete floors up and put down something else.
if there is a porous floor down and no dpc whats to stop the humidity levels in the house becoming problematic?

Easy tiger. Take the external concrete up first, make sure the ground levels are 6"+ below finished floor level and amuse yourself with carefully removing the render and exploring the wonderful world of in-situ timber splice repairs.

You sound like you have enough on your plate without worrying about ripping floors up and getting concerned about interior humidity levels when the building needs roofing work. Leave the conrete floors unitil everythjing else is sorted, it's the least likely suspect behind: roof, ground levels, drainage and render. If the plinths are still soggy a year after all of that has been sorted out, then give it some consideration.

M.

 

[Flyfisher]

I hesitate to follow a post from an expert professional but I agree about the top-down approach - but then I would say that because it's the approach I've been taking with our cement-rendered-timber-frame-house-with-a-badly-leaking-roof (after much advice, I hasten to add). Actually, the roof over the timber-framed part of the house was finished last year and we're now able to notice a real difference in the house as things dry out in the attic rooms and the bedrooms - and no more need for buckets in the bedrooms when it rains (no exaggeration!).

I've yet to remove the cement render (except those parts that have already fallen off) so I don't really know the state of the underlying timbers and sole plate. The good news is that we don't have concrete floors, the bad news is ground levels are currently far too high. But this period property thing does strange things to the mind and things that I would have previously panicked about now don't seem to worry me at all as I've relaxed into the house. Although I don't know the state of the sole plates, I do know that the house has been standing for about 450 years and it still seems pretty darned solid, so it's unlikely to fall down in the next couple of years while I fix the roof and make it properly waterproof.

 

[Penners]

no more need for buckets in the bedrooms when it rains.

Southern nancy....

 

[FamilyWiggs]

no more need for buckets in the bedrooms when it rains.

Southern nancy....

Um, Penners - isn't Norfolk to the north of Suffolk?

 

[Penners]

I never claimed not to be a southern nancy myself. Haven't had a bucket under the roof for...ooooh... months.

Anyway, I happen to know that FF is actually a Hertforshire man, masquerading as ruffty-tuffty Norfolkian.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

 

[robgil]

thanks for the advice guys. i am off up there again on friday hopefully so i will have a walk around with my survey and see whats what for sure. the roof surprisingly enough is still keeping everything dry even though it needs a considerable amount of costly work to put it right. the ridge needs a re thatch as does the rear half of the roof but it still works. ive stopped panicking now and one step at a time does seem to be the best idea , starting with the easy stuff first.
i will report back after friday and update with my findings. thanks again.

 

[AMc]

If the roof is watertight you may find you have plenty of time to work on other things before you can get a thatcher to come and spend your money.

A tale told in the shops and pubs - a local GII house was bought and needed rethatching - the new developer/owner got a thatcher out to quote. Job was £25K or something horrific, owner agreed and asked when could they start? Two years was the reply. How much to start tomorrow? The answer was double, as he was financing the house to resell and couldn't start before the house was water tight he paid - presumably bumping every other client back 3 months. Having viewed the house I can believe it to be true. For all his expense the house is currently let, having failed to sell for over a year.

 

[Flyfisher]

Anyway, I happen to know that FF is actually a Hertforshire man, masquerading as ruffty-tuffty Norfolkian.

'Tis true, my secret's out. Despite my ruffty-tuffty bravado I'm imposing my southern nancy ways on our new Norfolk pile. You know the sort of thing; a non-leaking roof, windows with no missing panes of glass, a functioning heating system and other similarly unnecessary luxuries.

 

[robgil]

If the roof is watertight you may find you have plenty of time to work on other things before you can get a thatcher to come and spend your money.

A tale told in the shops and pubs - a local GII house was bought and needed rethatching - the new developer/owner got a thatcher out to quote. Job was £25K or something horrific, owner agreed and asked when could they start? Two years was the reply. How much to start tomorrow? The answer was double, as he was financing the house to resell and couldn't start before the house was water tight he paid - presumably bumping every other client back 3 months. Having viewed the house I can believe it to be true. For all his expense the house is currently let, having failed to sell for over a year.

fortunately the quote wasn't that horrific but the time scale on one quote we got was next spring , the earliest is this fall.i suppose the first thing we need to ascertain is wither or not can we rely on the current thatch to see us through the winter.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

the earliest is this fall.i

.

Aha - I spy an american (possibly an American).

 

[Penners]

Unless he's just unsteady on his feet.