Safe removal of 2nd story timber

[charlie-ia]

The wooden floor of the upstairs of our barn has completely collapsed at one end, and is thoroughly rotten at the other. how do we safely remove it?

Theres no way it can be walked on, and several feet deep in junk and muck, (including various toxic looking farm related glass bottles with dubious liqiuds, and heavy sharp rusty metal stuff.) I'd ideally like to remove all this before tackling the wood itself, but dont see how to get to it.

despite touching the ground at one end, the floor is almost complete, so you can walk under it, but cant see through except a small area at the low end.

I dont think the floor would hold my weight, even with a ladder or something to spread the it out.

if you use pitprops, do you just extend them so the beams cant move, or do you try to take a bit of the weight off? i dont suppose that forcing them straight is a good idea. are they what we need, or is there something else?

is it better to work from above or below? and how do we go about it without falling through or dropping half a tractor on our head?

 

[MdB]

Is it possible to fill the void under the floor with something? I'm thinking a lot of straw bales or similiar. (might not be a good idea)

Alternatively, could you hire a cherry picker to give you access?

You also want to worry about the stability of the barn walls once the floor is removed.

 

[charlie-ia]

I like the straw bales idea! that could work. if we packed them in properly would they support the walls too? the roof has been redone fairly recently so im hoping that could brace it. do we need something more technical?

this is going to be one of the first problems we tackle, to give us somewhere to work and store stuff. the idea was to remove the floor and worry about the rest later. is this going to lead to further structural problems?

im not sure a cherry picker would help. do they fit through doors?

 

[Nemesis]

Are you talking both flooring boards AND joists which are rotten?

By pit props I assume you mean Acro props?

 

[Gervase]

Acrow props can be hired pretty cheaply (or even bought for around £20 a pop). The idea is just to jack them up to the point where they are snug under the timber - you don't want to force it back into place. They come in five sizes, from just over a meter to nearly five meters, so you're spoiled for choice!
Alternatively you could buy some cheap carcassing timber and make your own bracing under the old floor.

 

[MdB]

I like the straw bales idea! that could work. if we packed them in properly would they support the walls too? the roof has been redone fairly recently so im hoping that could brace it. do we need something more technical?

I can't possibly answer that. You need a structural engineer to answer that properly.

this is going to be one of the first problems we tackle, to give us somewhere to work and store stuff. the idea was to remove the floor and worry about the rest later. is this going to lead to further structural problems?

If the floor beams are structural important then yes, you will have structural problems.

im not sure a cherry picker would help. do they fit through doors?

 

[Gervase]

Apropos not a lot, I came across an obit for the inventor of the Acrow, which also explains how it got its name. Sounds like a nice chap.

 

[charlie-ia]

Are you talking both flooring boards AND joists which are rotten?

the whole thing looks like its hanging by a thread. i havent touched it yet, and you cant see the floor from above because of the junk.

theres a big beam that runs the length of the room that has rotted through completely at one end, and appears to have pulled the floor with it as it sagged.

By pit props I assume you mean Acro props?

by pit props i mean im not happy getting too close untill someone can reassure me its not all going to come tumbelling down without fair warning. theres quite weight of unknown stuff that might not be supported very well.

its a bit of a puzzle. if we could see the floor it would be easier. for safetys sake im assuming that the whole thing is rotten, when we get to whitling it away we can grade it as we go.

 

[Geoff Flegg]

Without seeing this it's difficult for anyone to give a qualified opinion. The comments on the danger to the rest of the building are very valid - if you start taking what's left of the floor out, and it's not done in the right way, you may cause more problems.

If you're not sure what you're doing, get a structural engineer to give you an opinion - or at the very least, an experienced demolition contractor to give you a quote. A good demolition contractor understands how a building works, the effect of removing certain elements on the rest of the structure, and most importantly how to do that safely.

It ain't worth the risk if you're not confident, both to your health and to the building's.

 

[MdB]

What happens if you get it wrong...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6746017.stm

Building was under renovation.

 

[Nemesis]

I've just sent that to the SAVE office - clearly another Building at Risk!

Nasty if you look at the video footage.

 

[Penners]

I've just sent that to the SAVE office - clearly another Building at Risk!

You might just be bolting the stable door.....etc.

 

[chuckey]

It would seem that the beam ends are rotten, so unless the length that is left after the rotten ends are cut off is useful, you have got a lot of wet fire wood.
I would use some old timber props(4" X 2") to hold up the beams while I cut through them close to the wall, then push the props over to get the whole thing down to ground level where it can be unloaded and dismembered safely.
Frank

 

[NT]

One thing I would do is be sure to stay above the floor structure, not go under it anywhere, as it sounds very precarious. I presume with scaffolding one could construct an access platform, and add horizontal outreach to get to the possible hazardous goods to remove them. I imagine it would be tied to the walls to stabilise it.


NT

 

[NT]

You may also be able to connect wooden props to what remains of the floor from above, whereas venturing underneath such a heavy and unstable structure would be an obvious hazard.


NT

 

[charlie-ia]

this sounds like we cant do it our selves then? thats a shame.
the surveyor didnt pay much attention to any of the outbuildings except for mentioning they were "in need of repair". i suppose it all boils down to knowing the right questions to ask.

so how would they actually go about putting scaffolding upstairs?
we wouldnt have to take the roof off would we?
do you think we might be able to remove the wood ourselves if we got it supported, or is it more like a game of kerplunkk that we're better off staying well away from? just pay them and have done

 

[Penners]

I would use some old timber props(4" X 2") to hold up the beams while I cut through them close to the wall, then push the props over to get the whole thing down to ground level

I agree with the idea of propping the whole structure - whether with timber or Acrows - but I certainly wouldn't just drop the whole the structure like that. It sounds a dangerous strategy for you and the building.

I would prop as suggested, then cut the old floor down a section at a time, in manageable bits.

 

[biffvernon]

I guess these guys just couldn't get enough straw bales. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6746017.stm

 

[Penners]

As the building is Hazel Bleeugggh's campaign HQ, I reckon there's an obvious list of suspects:

(not including the top centre, of course!)

 

[Nemesis]

Hmmm. I can recall when Peter H was the radical leftie of his generation...