RSPB and renewable energy

[Schoolmarm]

PLANT TREES ! PLANT THEM NOW!! GO ON, WHAT ARE YOU ALL WAITING FOR !

If we pay farmers subsidies to not grow food and not graze animals and not produce milk - they could use the time they save and (an alternative) subsidy from the government to plant trees, with broad leaves to soak up some carbon - up on our fells they could start at the bottom and spiral their way up saving our topsoil from sliding down into the river valleys and out to sea, silting up estuaries on the way.

They could return to coppicing on the odd acre for fuel for heating and anyone who could have a wood burner installed would be encouraged to get one - with a back boiler - even town and city properties could do this
Shelli X
So - Why are you still reading this ? Why aren't you out in the garden? - October is perfect time to plant trees you know
Get on with it

What the hell will you all be eating if farmers turn their land over to trees/coppicing or worse still bio fuel?


Graham, how do you decide the pattern to plant them in and the shape of the "patch" of forest?

 

[wobs]

What case have you made exactly?

I regard one of the figures you quoted as originating in Fairyland, but just to be sure I asked for the source so that I could check it. To do that I would need to know the name of the author and details of the journal it was published in.
So far all I know is that it is sitting on your desk with numbers that you believe come from an AEA report. That's all still rather too close to Fairyland to be independantly verified.

I simply siad it was in the trade magazine that is sat on my desk. It gave no direct reference, but the magazine is for professional chemical engineers, and is hardly a "fairytale" publication. I've seen a number of studies in the past regarding this subject, and I believe it refers to an AEA report. I've known a number of people who have done scientific work for the AEA, and they have made no complaints about their approach to research.

If that isn't enough, and the fact that I've already put up another study with different numbers, here is another mention of similar numbers.....

Some further discussion, this time from the Government:

"Nuclear power generation has a relatively small carbon
footprint (~5gCO2eq/kWh) (Fig 2). Since there is no
combustion, (heat is generated by fission of uranium or
plutonium), operational CO2 emissions account for <1%
of the total. Most emissions occur during uranium mining,
enrichment and fuel fabrication. Decommissioning
accounts for 35% of the lifetime CO2 emissions, and
includes emissions arising from dismantling the nuclear
plant and the construction and maintenance of waste
storage facilities.12 The most energy intensive phase of
the nuclear cycle is uranium extraction, which accounts
for 40% of the total CO2 emissions. Some commentators
have suggested that if global nuclear generation capacity
increases, higher grade uranium ore deposits would be
depleted, requiring use of lower grade ores. This has
raised concerns that the carbon footprint of nuclear
generation may increase in the future.

Future nuclear footprint & global uranium resources
Some analysts are concerned that the future carbon
footprint of nuclear power could increase if lower grade
uranium ore is used, as it would require more energy to
extract and refine to a level usable in a nuclear reactor.
However, a 2006 study by AEA Technology calculated
that for ore grades as low as 0.03%, additional emissions
would only amount to 1.8gCO2eq/kWh. This would raise
the current footprint of UK nuclear power stations from 5
to 6.8gCO2eq/kWh (Fig 3). If lower grades of uranium are
used in the future the footprint of nuclear will increase,
but only to a level comparable with other ‘low carbon’
technologies and will not be as large as the footprints of
fossil fuelled systems."

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/postpn268.pdf

The other issue that needs to be raised is that no one has actually come up with an alternative to nuclear energy for a large scale baseload supply that is as low in carbon emissions. Wind/solar (& solar thermal)/biomass/wave are not going to do it, and as you've already pointed out, we have a huge energy gap that needs plugging.

The risk raised by anti-nuke people is always overblown, and issue of disposal has long been solved. Decommissioning is planned into the design (and will take less energy than current decommssioning as a result), and France has some of the cheapest electricity in Europe.

We need nuclear.

 

[wobs]

So - Why are you still reading this ? Why aren't you out in the garden? - October is perfect time to plant trees you know

Get on with it

I'm too busy cutting fire wood from my own source. I'm afriad I don't have a garden in which we can plant trees, although we do have two apple trees in pots if that's any help (we've shown them the fire, just so they know where they're going if they don't produce any apples).
Certainly cheaper than a gym. :lol:

 

[skier-hughes]

[
What the hell will you all be eating if farmers turn their land over to trees/coppicing or worse still bio fuel?

Graham, how do you decide the pattern to plant them in and the shape of the "patch" of forest?

My own fruit and veg.

I made a heart shape with an arrow and the letters G and J, should be fun for those who are still flying!!!!



Really, I planted them around the edge of our land, so when our little bit of adjoining green belt become houses the trees will hopefully be big enough to give us some screening. Trees given to me by Forest of Mercia, along with advice on planting and spacing etc.
They are going to come and plant the hedge this year, but we will be paying for the plants.

Graham

 

[skier-hughes]

Certainly cheaper than a gym. :lol:

Thought that said gin

 

[Edwardia]

Wood-burning stoves and log fires sound great, but the air quality, in our towns and cities especially, would deteriorate rapidly. Neither logs nor coal burn efficiently, as you can see just by looking at them. To be burning efficiently combustible material needs a blue flame.

 

[Schoolmarm]

[
What the hell will you all be eating if farmers turn their land over to trees/coppicing or worse still bio fuel?

Graham, how do you decide the pattern to plant them in and the shape of the "patch" of forest?

My own fruit and veg.

I made a heart shape with an arrow and the letters G and J, should be fun for those who are still flying!!!!



Really, I planted them around the edge of our land, so when our little bit of adjoining green belt become houses the trees will hopefully be big enough to give us some screening. Trees given to me by Forest of Mercia, along with advice on planting and spacing etc.
They are going to come and plant the hedge this year, but we will be paying for the plants.

Graham

Hmm good idea for round the edges, I keep being put off planting by looking at our 44 acres and thinking I have to make a nice "forest" shape somewhere.

 

[Edwardia]

I think there are grants available for hedge and tree planting, although I don't know how one qualifies. NFU magazine has ads for trees and hedging bought in bulk.

 

[shelli]

What the hell will you all be eating if farmers turn their land over to trees/coppicing or worse still bio fuel?

Apples from New Zealand and Asparagus from Peru of course !! - :wink: - or possibly from my local food cooperative or farmers market

I am talking about the fact that we are still paying our farmers EU subsidies not to produce food anyway - here in the Lakes they are sitting on land that is unused and could productively be used as carbon sink and fuel.

Yes some of them are hill farmers, the soil is almost non existent on the fells (hence planting in spirals from the bottom up) and of course sheep need grazing land - but they have acres and acres that is unused.
NB Sheep love trees - they provide shelter. Farmers cut em down - like they dig up hedgerows because they get in the way of their machinery. "but sheep might break a leg in the woods" - yes and they might die of exposure as well (and often do in these parts).

From where I am sitting I can see a former industrial landscape with all it's topsoil sliding down the hillside exposing the rock beneath - they say the Howgills are beautiful - I would prefer to look at a forest anyday.

(nb i didn't mention bio fuels - nor would I)

Love and peace to you Graham - I suspected you were a good un

Shelli - Treehugger XX

 

[shelli]

Wood-burning stoves and log fires sound great, but the air quality, in our towns and cities especially, would deteriorate rapidly. Neither logs nor coal burn efficiently, as you can see just by looking at them. To be burning efficiently combustible material needs a blue flame.

Sodium ? - that burns with a blue flame - or was that potassium? :shock: school chemistry temporarily abandoned me

I do see Edwardia and swapping one pollution for another clearly isn't acceptable - what we need is someone to invent
soot filters !

Do they exist ? I can see a dragon's den presentation in the near future

 

[Edwardia]

Have to confess that I'm not up on science myself Shelli, I was banned from Chemistry lessons aged 13, for creating an unknown chemical that burned through my notes, overall and skirt But from what I remember of bunsen burners, they looked pretty when yellow but didn't heat anything until blue. Something to do with oxygen I think. I suspect that if you could get a log/coal fire to burn blue, it would be so hot that the chimney would disintegrate

Actually, I did ask my local council if I could burn logs and coal in the fireplaces and was told that I could.There are no bye-laws here for fires or bonfires. I reckon that would soon change if either became popular though !

 

[shelli]

it would take the form of a tax for sure :roll:

 

[skier-hughes]

Hmm good idea for round the edges, I keep being put off planting by looking at our 44 acres and thinking I have to make a nice "forest" shape somewhere.

44 acres, lucky you, we have two.

Why not plant in this shape

CARBON SINK

or

REDUCE YOUR CO2 NOW, I AM

Wonder how it will look in 200 years time

 

[Schoolmarm]

Hmmm seem to have a bunch of varied replies from an idiot looking through a window to one who thinks I can plant in writing . Never mind I will see what fits best with making it wildlife friendly, growing to the best it can and living side by side with my sheep.


I expect Gervase will know.

 

[Penners]

Not with me and jerusalem artichokes, it ain't

It rather makes the expression "carbon footprint" anatomically inaccurate, doesn't it?

 

[skier-hughes]

I expect Gervase will know.

Planting in writing is easy to do, but was only a jocular reply.
Unless Gervase knows your land shape, make up, chemical compostion etc, I doubt he will know exactly. :wink:

Contact your local forestry commision,

This is what you want

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/infd-7b3j7y

 

[middi]

We do not need another Einstein to solve our Energy situation, it is very simple. If OUR shortsighted aim is to use energy trapped within our planet we all know, and hopefully all accept, that this is bad news. If we live in the hope that the next Einstein is around the corner then we ARE gambling with our future.

We should be able to stop blowing eachother's brains off, for something that is unsustainable anyway, and concentrate all resources possible to harness what is free on Earth. If it means harnessing solar power from afar then that is what we do, if some people hate wind turbines, well, hard sh*t, if waves power means bu**ering up a few beaches used by wind surfers, so what. Ok, a few birds will be killed and a few fish will be mangled surely this is a fight for the survival of the species( humans in our case), at least we can guarantee that, barring a colossal cosmic disaster, we may just manage to make it untill the end of the Earth's natural existence.

We will not make it by adopting our parasitic attitude.

Now:, Governments, dictators, terrorists, churchleaders and us, Who's going to cast the first stone. There you go, see, we shove our heads in the sand when the going is good hoping that when we need fresh air it is still there for when we stand up. As it has been pointed earlier, if we cannot sort out our finances long term (because of greed), what hope is there for human survival to eternity.

I said my piece, now I am going to fit a new hook in my chimney just in case I need to boil any water in the near future.

 

[Flyfisher]

Sodium ? - that burns with a blue flame - or was that potassium? :shock: school chemistry temporarily abandoned me

Sodium compounds burn with an orange light, e.g. sodium lamps in street lights (and I wonder how much CO2 they produce?)

 

[Edwardia]

Must be quite a lot. I lived in a village 2 miles from a town and at night you couldn't see the darkness just the orange glare

 

[AMc]

Wood burning stoves shouldn't create smog any more - many can be used in smokeless zones e.g.
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/cleanburn-cleanheat-stove.html
Wood fired boilers are also very low smoke emitters - if it's smoking or pushing out soot then it's not burning the wood completely.

There isn't enough room to grow enough wood for every one - once again we need a mixture of different fuel sources and mechanisms to heat our homes. There is no quick fix, we need to reduce consumption and increase the percentage of low carbon production or we're all going to be paying the price financially and environmentally.

My personal opinion is that any one objecting to wind turbines purely on 'beauty' grounds should go on a day trip to Drax and think about living next to that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drax_power_station