Retrospective Planning when buying. Help!

[PuppyD]

Hello All I am hoping that someone out there can give me some advice. Myself and the BF are trying to buy a house grade 2 listed, all seemed ok. I started checking for planning applications near the house to make sure no housing estates were going up and stumbled across the planning aps for the house (after a bit of hunting as its name got changed) it seemed that the vendor minus one had planning permission to take down a garage but then proceeded to build a garage with no consent. Problem one.

Secondly I thought I would introduce myself to the CO and ask about the chances of changing the hearth in the kitchen to accommodate the oven (tiny kitchen cant fit all utilities, but this will be a whole other thread...) i sent pictures of the current kitchen after the CO suggested it. She then tells me the chimney/hearth has had work done without listed consent. Problem two.

So obviously the sale has now been put on hold, my solicitors have asked for retrospective consent for both the garage and kitchen. The vendor is a retired guy in his 70s, who I feel sorry for as he bought the house and knew nothing about no planning on the garage ( he is using the same solicitors to sell that he did for buying so Id like to think a few red faces in their office) however we were told this would be a quick sale, no cain and we've moved super quick with survey etc.

So my question, does anyone have any experience of this?

Who should I chase, my solicitors have done all they can do, and the EA just says we must trust that the solicitors are dong their job, clearly they haven't, they took nearly two weeks to just send out draft contracts.

Should I just relax and let time roll on? Or push, i just don't want to p*** anyone off but don't want to be a mug either.

Help and reassurance needed. We love the house but need the garage.

Thankyou

 

[andrew gayton]

Quite a common situation.

if it were me, I would take on the regularisation of the statutory consents (both listed building consent and planning permission in this instance) and adjust the purchase price accordingly ................. or at least suggest this so they push to get this sorted out. I would also deal directly with the solicitors - the estate agents, in my experience, will be unable to help here.

 

[PuppyD]

Hi andrew thanks for the reply, we have already got 25k off the asking price and 43k off what he bought it for, so im unsure if it will speed anything up. Although worth a try, at this rate were looking at completing in december which is crazy when offer was accepted at the begginng of July (meanwhile living with the in-laws!)

When you say speak to the solicitors, whos?

 

[JHD]

I'm currently going through the buying process myself. I'm having different problems, but I can sympathize with the stress you're feeling!

My understanding is that if you went ahead and bought the house you would not be at risk of prosecution as you did not make the alterations, however if consent is not given you would have to foot the bill for correcting them. If it were me I'd get retrospective building consent in place before exchanging contracts, in which case I think you need to speak to the CO and your solicitor. Another option, and I don't know if this is possible, is to take out an indemnity insurance policy which would pay out if consent is not ultimately given; you'd need to ask your solicitor about this.

Whatever you do, take your time and ask for advice. It's easy to get caught up in the emotion of buying a house.

ps. 2 weeks for draft contracts seems quite quick to me... I'm still waiting after 4 weeks.

 

[PuppyD]

My understanding is that if you went ahead and bought the house you would not be at risk of prosecution as you did not make the alterations, however if consent is not given you would have to foot the bill for correcting them. If it were me I'd get retrospective building consent in place before exchanging contracts, in which case I think you need to speak to the CO and your solicitor. Another option, and I don't know if this is possible, is to take out an indemnity insurance policy which would pay out if consent is not ultimately given; you'd need to ask your solicitor about this.

as soon as solicitors knew about the lack of planning they stopped all searches, my understanding is they cant allow it to proceed without the consents as they cannot pass on the risk of prosecution (with listed houses this is always applicable unlike unlisted where there is a time scale). The CO has already expressed a dislike in the size and type of garage (although rendered and tiled roof) so if they said it had to come down then the house would be useless to us as we need the extra space. I know I need to be patient but the lack of communication is what bothers me. When I sold my house a few years ago I kept contact with the agent on every step so that the buyer knew how it was going, maybe I was being over communicative (if thats possible). Im cautious about indemnity as although the kitchen would be fine as I want to replace that but the garage could be a real issue.

ps. 2 weeks for draft contracts seems quite quick to me... I'm still waiting after 4 weeks.[/quote] really?? My solicitors had it done the afternoon I had the offer accepted and in the post the following day. Maybe I am trying to rush things, but the house was offered chain free, vacant possession, quick sale etc so i figured it would of been chugging along nicely.


Just going to have to wait, I want to crack on and make it look beautiful

 

[skier-hughes]

I can't see many insurers wanting to give you cover against a certainty!

 

[tobydog]

I can't see many insurers wanting to give you cover against a certainty!

Absolutely. The concept of indemnity is that the insured event is fortuitous and that the original cover is arranged in good faith on the basis that the Insured is not aware of any known or reported occurrence likely to give rise to a claim. This looks odds on!!

We have an indemnity policy on 'our' driveway. It's given access to the house for 400 years and it's also a public footpath but no one seems to own it. We are insured to the value of the house in the unlikely event that someone comes forward and claims ownership. If I knew someone had a possible ownership interest in the drive then I shouldn't, in all honesty, take out the policy.

 

[JHD]

I guess all solicitors have their own way of working... mine won't draw up the contracts until all the searches are complete, and my local council are currently being very slow; presumably due to holidays.

You're absolutely right Skier-Hughes - I realised my suggestion wouldn't work re. indemnity insurance after I posted.
This might be useful reading: http://www.foxleytaggplanning.co.uk/environment/training/
The last sentence is what Andrew said.

You could speak to the seller directly to explain the situation. Personally, I'm wary of what information does and does not get passed on by an estate agent.

 

[PuppyD]

You could speak to the seller directly to explain the situation. Personally, I'm wary of what information does and does not get passed on by an estate agent.[/quote]


The EA is very much "we must leave solicitors to do their jobs, as that what they are being paid to do" which in theory I agree with but the vendors solicitors did allow him to buy a house with a garage with no planning permission, so diligent isn't exactly a word that springs to mind.

I was thinking of seeing if the vendor would meet us at his property and we could go through the emails from the CO that way at least i could get a feeling for his understanding of the situation. Or am I totally overstepping the mark??

 

[PuppyD]

I am rubbish with the quote thing, sorry!

 

[JHD]

Sounds sensible to me. There is the potential for the buyer to get upset, after all he bought the house and lived there with no problems, but you sound a rational and considerate person that would be able to handle this.

 

[MatthewC]

I am rubbish with the quote thing, sorry!

Hit the "Quote" button and start typing AFTER the end where it says /quote in square brackets

 

[PuppyD]

Sounds sensible to me. There is the potential for the buyer to get upset, after all he bought the house and lived there with no problems, but you sound a rational and considerate person that would be able to handle this.

i might suggest it next week, he came out to the house when we had builders out to look at the flooring. He doesn't live in it and hasn't for a good few years so hopefully will be interested in talking directly to us. After all he is paying fir a mortgage on an empty house (previously rented) and he is retired so im sure he wants to progress. (Hopefully)

 

[PuppyD]

I am rubbish with the quote thing, sorry!

Hit the "Quote" button and start typing AFTER the end where it says /quote in square brackets

thanks!!

 

[skier-hughes]

We did most of the negotiations with our seller, visited him many times, and then told our solicitors what we wanted him to do, what was to be included and what to be left out, what land was in sale etc.
Far easier and quicker.
We had a great relationship with him, so much so, that when our seller pulled out he offered to buy our house off us. but we were selling at the right time so we had a new buyer in no time.

 

[garnett]

I just had a thought about this.

No time to get the law books out before the weekend, but while Listed Building Consent enforcment is not time constrained, the garage would have only required planning permission impacting on the setting of a listed buiding. As such is this covered by the four year rule and exempt from enforcment?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Garnett

 

[Flyfisher]

I guess all solicitors have their own way of working... mine won't draw up the contracts until all the searches are complete, and my local council are currently being very slow; presumably due to holidays.

Whatever happened to 'instructing' solicitors? They should certainly be offering you advice, but you don't have to take it ( well, unless it's a strictly legal issue) and you are perfectly at liberty to instruct them to do whatever you wish.

I don't mean this in the sense of telling them how to do their job ( how could you, that's their area of expertise and is what you're paying for), but it's perfectly reasonable to have a firm idea of what you're trying to achieve and the timescale constraints you're working to.

Skier's post pretty much describes how we've always handled house buying and selling and it has always worked for us, despite the occasional frustrations that seem to accompany such emotional transactions.

 

[PuppyD]

No time to get the law books out before the weekend, but while Listed Building Consent enforcment is not time constrained, the garage would have only required planning permission impacting on the setting of a listed buiding. As such is this covered by the four year rule and exempt from enforcement? hmmm interesting thought CO and solicitors didnt suggest this, though that doesn't mean anything.

 

[PuppyD]

Awesome but of quoting there by me!

Just wanted to say thanks to you all for the input over this.

 

[MatthewC]

I am rubbish with the quote thing, sorry!

Hit the "Quote" button and start typing AFTER the end where it says /quote in square brackets

thanks!!

Well done!!!