Restoring the garden wall

[Merlin]

Background:
Our Victorian mid-terrace (1896) did have a back garden wall until the previous owners pulled it down and installed double gates (6 feet high) to provide access to park their car on the back garden.

There is a service road (cobbled) that runs down the back of all our terrace houses that allows access to the back gardens of all the terraces.

In our back garden we have the original party walls between our back gardens and the neighbours' back gardens, which are approximately 6 feet high.

Intentions:
We want to remove the gates and replace the back wall as it was, building it back into the party walls where there are currently "jutting out" edges of bricks that define what the back wall originally was.

I have done some research on this, but am unclear on whether we will require planning permission as I seem to have hit a few grey areas. The questions I have are:
Will we require planning permission for replacing the gates with a 6 feet high wall?
Does the service road count as a highway?
Is a new wall classed as a replacement for an old wall / gates?

Many thanks in anticipation,

Merlin

 

[Penners]

I suspect that your Planning Officer will probably allow you to reinstate the wall as it originally existed. And you might be allowed to call this a repair.

But the best way to proceed is probably to give him/her a call to discuss your plan.

 

[LadyArowana]

Did the people who originally removed the wall and replaced with gates get PP ? and are you in a conservation area/ listed building ?

 

[Merlin]

Many thanks for your prompt replies.

Did the people who originally removed the wall and replaced with gates get PP ? and are you in a conservation area/ listed building ?

I am not sure whether there was planning permission for the removal of the wall. I will do some more research on that one.

We are not in a conservation area, nor is the house a listed building.

 

[Pford75]

Not sure on the PP question, but one issue which you may want to be aware of is related to building control. Historic walls were often built without foundations and depending on height, modern guidelines may require you to either provide footings, thicker base to the wall or even buttressing (depending on the height and style of the wall)

As for the service road, your deeds should confirm if this is a highway. I suspect that it is a private access which each of the properties has a ROW over. Does the council sweep/clean the accessway? Can't be sure, but I suspect that it is not a highway in the planning sense.

 

[OddJob]

If the wall is no higher than 2m,6'6" you won't need PP.
Just check with building regs to put your mind at rest.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If the wall is no higher than 2m,6'6" you won't need PP.
Just check with building regs to put your mind at rest.

If the rear access road is a public highway, PP is required for a wall or fence over 1m, 3'3", high

 

[OddJob]

If the wall is no higher than 2m,6'6" you won't need PP.
Just check with building regs to put your mind at rest.

If the rear access road is a public highway, PP is required for a wall or fence over 1m, 3'3", high

Yes,which is why I suggested checking with building regs.
So far as I know it still costs nothing to get an inspector to visit.
Judging by the original post the rear access may well be private and not viewable from a public highway which means the 6'6" rule should apply.

Intentions:
We want to remove the gates and replace the back wall as it was, building it back into the party walls where there are currently "jutting out" edges of bricks that define what the back wall originally was.

It's a reinstatement of the original so there should be no problem.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I said PP, which is the planning department, not building regs. I agree it sounds from the post as if the rear access may not be the public highway, but checking with the planning dept is what the original poster needs to do too.

The fact that adjacent properites still have high walls does not automatically mean that reinstatement is "not a problem" in the sense of not requiring permission.

They may also be other restrictions -

For example, my house has a shared pedestrian access along the back garden - when planning permission was given to convert it from a shop 12 years ago, a condition was attached restricting the height of the fence between the garden and footway to 1m.

 

[OddJob]

I said PP, which is the planning department, not building regs. I agree it sounds from the post as if the rear access may not be the public highway, but checking with the planning dept is what the original poster needs to do too.

The fact that adjacent properites still have high walls does not automatically mean that reinstatement is "not a problem" in the sense of not requiring permission.

They may also be other restrictions -

For example, my house has a shared pedestrian access along the back garden - when planning permission was given to convert it from a shop 12 years ago, a condition was attached restricting the height of the fence between the garden and footway to 1m.

I know what you said,but a good way of going through the bureaucracy of PP in instances like this is to go to building regs,it's quicker and it's free.
It works for me down here with my local authority,building regs just make a phone call to PP and nine times out of ten it's no problem.
Building regs get through the red tape for you.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Rubbish. If it needs Planning Permission, it needs Planning Permission. When a neighbour complains, "Oh, I phoned Building Regs and they said it was alright" cuts no ice.

 

[OddJob]

Rubbish. If it needs Planning Permission, it needs Planning Permission. When a neighbour complains, "Oh, I phoned Building Regs and they said it was alright" cuts no ice.

No,it's not rubbish,put your reading glasses on.
I clearly said building regs will cut through the red tape with PP,not that they would bypass PP.
Now,let me put this in simple English you can understand.
Getting building regs to talk to PP is less time consuming and frustrating than trying to get a quick answer from PP yourself.
Yes it helps if you're on good terms with building regs.
This is how it works for me at least,or has done in the past,building regs knows the guy in PP and makes a phone call,PP says it doesn't need planning permission,he knows,it's his job to know.
If it needs planning permission then as you say it needs planning permission,there is no way round that unless you're a feckin' pikey!
My point,which you failed to understand,is that building regs will be able to communicate with PP far quicker than the average Joe Public will and if it DOESN'T need planning permission you will be told you are legally allowed to build the wall/fence/model of the Sphynx.
Of course if you cop an attitude with the powers that be you'll get nowhere very slowly.
Next time you try shooting someone down make sure you don't go off half cocked eh :wink:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Next time you decide to make a patronising and ill-informed attack on someone who works in planning, don't pick me as your target. I answer the phone to calls like this all the time, and give a straight, but informative and useful, answer (for example, I don't just glibly say, "you can build up to two metres without permission" without finding out if the road at the back is public or not, or whether the caller lives in a listed building or a conservation area), or else I point them in the right direction. Trying to circumvent it ("cutting through the red tape") by asking a building inspector just drags it out. If you want, as Merlin does, to find out if something needs planning permission, ask the planning department.

 

[OddJob]

Next time you decide to make a patronising and ill-informed attack on someone who works in planning, don't pick me as your target. I answer the phone to calls like this all the time, and give a straight answer, or point them in the right direction. Trying to circumvent it by asking a building inspector just drags it out.

Not sure where you percieve the attack,I was under the impression you were attacking me and still are :roll:

Trying to circumvent it by asking a building inspector just drags it out.

No it doesn't,it gets past the obstructions like this.

I answer the phone to calls like this all the time, and give a straight answer, or point them in the right direction.

And keeps you in the loop,not out of it.
As I said,the building inspector can get past the phone jockeys and talk to someone who doesn't pass the buck to someone else and gets you lost in a series of jobsworths and nail polishers.

patronising and ill-informed

No,speaking from experience.

I don't have the faintest idea if you work "for" planning or "in" planning or just make the tea and answer the phones,I don't much care either.
What I do know is building regs and most COs are generally helpful,friendly people,they spend time out on site with the ordinary plebs like me and clients and see the thick end of it.
PP spend half their lives on pile cushions taking out their frustrations on honest working people by blighting the countryside.
This bloke wants to reinstate his wall,no big deal,but your mob would make him go through hoops for a little job that harms no-one.
Yet at the same time you give retrospective planning permission and change of use on green belt land to gangs of pikeys who contribute bugger all to the economy or community and deliberately devalue peoples properties.
Another half dozen or so will probably spring up this coming Bank Holiday when you're not looking.
Excuse me?
But where are your priorities?
You destroy rural Britain.
It doesn't matter how many objections and protests there are you give planning permission to Tesco to build new stores in market towns,thus forcing the little tradititional shops,the butchers and bakers and candle stick makers out of business.
Local farmers go bust partly because of town planning by some ar*ehole who thinks shopping in Spar for microwave bacon and tins of cider is all we need.
Sorry mate but I live in the real world,not hiding behind the phone on a haemorrhoid cushion.
I see what "planning" does to this country.
So ill informed I'm not,and the best way sometimes to speak to the organ grinder not the monkey is to get another organ grinder to go past the monkey.
Maybe you're one of the good guys,if so,you're in the wrong job.

 

[Moo]

Oh dear, Oddjob. I'm afraid you've just wasted a lot of energy firing at the wrong target.
If only you'd looked at Gareth's profile.......

 

[skier-hughes]

oh dear :roll:

 

[JoceAndChris]

I don't have the faintest idea if you work "for" planning or "in" planning or just make the tea and answer the phones,I don't much care either.
What I do know is building regs and most COs are generally helpful,friendly people,they spend time out on site with the ordinary plebs like me and clients and see the thick end of it.
PP spend half their lives on pile cushions taking out their frustrations on honest working people by blighting the countryside.
This bloke wants to reinstate his wall,no big deal,but your mob would make him go through hoops for a little job that harms no-one.
Yet at the same time you give retrospective planning permission and change of use on green belt land to gangs of pikeys who contribute [Bad Word] all to the economy or community and deliberately devalue peoples properties.
Another half dozen or so will probably spring up this coming Bank Holiday when you're not looking.
Excuse me?
But where are your priorities?
You destroy rural Britain.
It doesn't matter how many objections and protests there are you give planning permission to Tesco to build new stores in market towns,thus forcing the little tradititional shops,the butchers and bakers and candle stick makers out of business.
Local farmers go bust partly because of town planning by some ar*ehole who thinks shopping in Spar for microwave bacon and tins of cider is all we need.
Sorry mate but I live in the real world,not hiding behind the phone on a haemorrhoid cushion.
I see what "planning" does to this country.
So ill informed I'm not,and the best way sometimes to speak to the organ grinder not the monkey is to get another organ grinder to go past the monkey.
Maybe you're one of the good guys,if so,you're in the wrong job.

Good Heavens. I think that gets A*** for the Most Misguided Post I've read on here ever! I've written a lot myself so think I can judge!


Oddjob, Gareth is a very experienced, and kind, Conservation Officer and architect who goes out of his way to help people and make life a bit easier for all their planning requirements. He writes learned articles and has been involved in important things like the 20th C soc. He is a very valued member of this community here; you just can't speak to him like that. I think you should apologise profusely and immediately!

 

[Schoolmarm]

Gareth!! I want a cup of tea right now and put that bloody nail varnish away!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Gareth!! I want a cup of tea right now and put that bloody nail varnish away!

:lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

Oi Gervase,what was the number of that bus you took out of here and can I get a ticket for the next one!

Missed the bus then. :lol: