Restoration glass - alternative suppliers/approaches?

[paulb33]

Hi All,

Back to the windows on my Arts & Crafts house restoration. I'm installing 30+ single glazed hardwood framed windows. The joiner has quoted an extra 25% (£7k) for heritage glass. To my knowledge, TATRA are sole UK importer of this glass from Poland.

http://www.tatra-glass.co.uk/restoration_glass.php

I assume this drives up cost to me the punter? Anyone know if this can be sourced direct from Poland? If so, where does one start? Any other creative ideas welcome...

To me, the look of the glass is important. Flat, modern glazing ruins the look of the elevation (however lovely the frames). Albeit, at £7k extra, so too will the rain coming through the ceilings....

Thanks again,

Paul

 

[Penners]

Flat, modern glazing ruins the look of the elevation (however lovely the frames).

Does it really? I wonder how many people would notice (other than you!). I venture to suggest that, viewed from outside the building, the quality of the glass is all but invisible, because most of the interior viewed through the glass is just darkness.

When you look out through a window, that's rather a different story. The quality of the glass can impart form and colour to the view, so perhaps that's more important. Whether it's seven thousand quid more important is, of course, a matter entirely between you and your bank statement!

I'm afraid I can be no help whatsoever on the matter of glass sourcing. All I can say is that, in my experience, it's sometimes easy to get drawn into some desperate worries about your restoration project, which seem immensely important at the time, but which pale into insignificance in the end.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Since your windows are made of many small panes, even with float glass you will still get the nice twinkly effect from the panes being slightly out of plane with each other. I think 7k is too much for wobbly glass personally. However I am with you and like the look of it. One way might be to try and recycle old glass from places where windows are being replaced, and since your panes are small this will be easier than if you had big sash windows. You could even ask double glazing fitters to save old glass for you!!!

 

[DJH]

Old agricultural or greenhouse glass is good for replacement panes...old cloches and the like are a good source. Cutting it to size can be a problem as glass hardens the older it gets.

If new glass has to be used then a little more putty under opposite sides of each pane when bedding them in will reflect light in different directions giving the appearance of 'wrinkled' glass.

Doug

 

[paulb33]

At issue, is that I've waited over a decade to do this. So, I want to do it right. Question is, whether spending £7k is in itself right. As you say, that's for my budget to decide. For me, £7k is probably too much. £3K probably isn't too much. Hence my question: is there a cheaper way of sourcing wobbly glass?

I'm told that greenhouse glass is very thin and fragile. Not ideal.

Great tip on the putty, Doug. The glazing bars are very deep. The glazier struggled to glaze our mockup due to the depth of putty needed. So, this gives us options in that regard.

 

[paulb33]

I venture to suggest that, viewed from outside the building, the quality of the glass is all but invisible, because most of the interior viewed through the glass is just darkness..

That's my point, Penners. When viewed outside, you see a wall of black. And, if the glass is very flat, its just black. If its wobbly, there's nice variation of reflections etc.

I should get out more.

 

[DJH]

http://www.restorationwindowglass.com/

 

[Penners]

I'm told that greenhouse glass is very thin and fragile. Not ideal.

I agree. Horticultural glass is only 3mm thick, and its flaws and variations can make it quite fragile, which of course can be a safety issue as well as a practicability issue. It's OK for the occasional small glass panel in a door, for example, but I certainly wouldn't use for an entire house.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Old glass is also very thin. I've found horticultural glass to be pretty flaw free when I've bought it, but it is good for sashes as the weights don't need changing due to it being thinner and lighter than normal window glass.

 

[DJH]

http://www.restorationwindowglass.com/

Ooops. That's an American site.

The name of the suppliers is on the tip of my tongue but I can't for the life of me think of who they are. Maybe about three o'clock in the morning it'll come to me!!

It's OK for the occasional small glass panel in a door, for example,

:shock: Not really. Too easy to put your hand through it!

Horticultural glass is only 3mm thick,

More or less the thickness of the original glass I'd venture a guess...

Doug

 

[plasticpigeon]

It's OK for the occasional small glass panel in a door, for example,

:shock: Not really. Too easy to put your hand through it!

Doug

I think I may have got my quotes mixed up!

 

[plasticpigeon]

Apparently the old window scrappage scheme is back, so take this opportunity to get those last pieces of historic glass before they are chucked by staybrite et al.

 

[DJH]

I think I may have got my quotes mixed up!


Where did I say that Plastic?? It's more than likely true though...

Doug

 

[paulb33]

Just before Christmas, I jogged past a splendid Victorian villa similar to that below (this one is just up the road). The owners were proudly installing uPVC windows. This in a conservation area. They got approval on condition the windows didn't open inwards/outwards.

The original sash windows were stacked in the garden. They probably thought I was mad when I asked for them. I couldn't have the weights ('we've sold them for scrap'). So, now they sit by my garage. I'm just concerned they're a little thin to be safe and secure. What d'ya reckon?

P

 

[plasticpigeon]

They don't deserve such a place, and shame on the council for granting permission. In my area I don't think anyone in the council knows what a conservation area is! One with grass in the front garden perhaps.

Anyway I'm sure if you had the original windows with the original glass you would treasure them and not give a second thought to safety. I think you should use any old glass you can find, and the fact that your windows are casements with small panes makes the strength of the glass even less important.

I am going to try and save some old sashes from a house that is being ruined on the next rd from mine. The problem is I am always home from work well after the builders have done their worst and anything good is smashed in the skip. I missed an original pine fire surround the other day

 

[discobarry]

Try these guys in Sowerby bridge in West Yorkshire.

http://www.heritagestainedglass.co.uk

 

[DJH]

Bingo...thought of them...

http://www.londoncrownglass.co.uk/London_Crown_Glass/Types.html

Doug

 

[88v8]

Bingo
http://www.londoncrownglass.co.uk/London_Crown_Glass/Types.html

Doug

... can be laminated... blimey... useful or what...

Ivor

 

[MatthewC]

In my area I don't think anyone in the council knows what a conservation area is! One with grass in the front garden perhaps.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[88v8]

Reverting to the 'thin glass is dangerous' point... we had a 3mm (English version) pane in our bathroom door, it cost us £115 in 1992, and I hope very much it's still there.
Would I use 3mm in a full-length door? No, too easy to break. Or French doors? Perhaps, depends. Would I use it in a window? Almost certainly.

One day the safety crackpots will insist we have laminated in all windows. This sort of nonsense is insidious, in the end one risks becoming brainwashed.
If you have old glass, use it. Assuming you can extract it from the old sashes.

Ivor... behold, a whole door of 3mm, some of it 100 years old.