replacing main Oak beam

[JanJonWestWales]

Hi, we are contemplating replacing the main oak beam in one of the rooms in our Welsh farmhouse. It is 12"x12"x15' and is hand hewn (original hewing marks), a shame that the ends have rotted away and are being supported with iron braces at one end and a supporting post at the other.
I am loathed to take it out as it is gorgous and probabaly older than the house (1758). But have decided to fit a new(or reclaimed) beam.
Any advice on new/reclaimed beams, and what to do with the old one, i want it to go to a good home. Ive been trying to think where else i can use it, but nothing is really suitable. Cut down to size it will be 12"x12"x 13'.
Any takers??
J&J

 

[Feltwell]

Is there no way of retaining it with some nice heavy-duty blacksmith made brackets bolted on to each end? Seems a great shame to remove it. Pictures of the problem ends would help you get a better response.

 

[JanJonWestWales]

will take some pictures next weekend, and post them, i would love to be able to save it!

 

[Flyfisher]

How long has the beam been supported by the ironwork and supporting post and why is this now considered to be structurally unsound?

 

[JanJonWestWales]

not sure of the repair work timing, I bought the house 3 years ago and the last works see to have been done inthe 70's. its not a matter of actual structural soundness(though its very dougbtful), more of aeshetics. I think the beam may be ok with its iron work, but i want to leave them exposed and the ironwork is very ugly. Would prefer a straight, neat, strong beam, than a bodged one.

 

[middi]

When you say " main oak beam" I presume you mean the central beam that supports the floor joists at either side.
If the floor joists are morticed and pegged into the beam it is a serious and major job, if the floor joists are dovetailed or countersank into the beam from above it is relatively easy but still labourious.

I would attempt to save the central beam and as much as possible of it's original features, even if it means adding a couple of heavy duty oak posts at each end of the beam and make a feature by also incorporating a couple of heavy duty corner braces ( about 500mm length).

This would be very easy to do, extremely cheap, it would save all the original features and would be looked upon as an "honest" attempt in order to safeguard the original integrity of the building.
( Of course it all depends if your wall line beneath the ends of the beam will allow you to do this)

Middi

 

[JanJonWestWales]

Yes its the main cross beam. The floor joists are mostly ok, need to replace 2 or 3 (the ones nearest the wall), they are very simply morticed in, just sitting on the main beam.
There is already a supporting post at one end, and an ugly steel joist into the wall.
Unfortunately this room is above the cellar, and that room is very damp, and its main beam is the worst in the house (all others are fine), That beam probably needs replacing/repairing too, so putting supporting posts above that is not really an option. unless I put supporting posts underneath the cellar beam, and then above it and under the first floor beam ! ...getting expensive!

Does anyone know the approximate cost of a beam of this size(12"x12"x15'), and how much i might get for sellingthe original (cut down to 12"x12"x13')?

 

[middi]

A " green oak" beam of that size could be about £ 100. 00 depending on transport or quality, a seasoned ( air dried ) beam of that dimension could cost you more than £ 300.00 depending on quality and amount of seasoning, ( should be seasoned for at least three years )
The second option is the best for your situation.

If you need support in the cellar to support beam posts above they could be built out of brick piers ( just a suggestion)

Middi

 

[JanJonWestWales]

good idea...hadn't thought of that.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Had similar problem with main spine beam in a room of ours. Our joiner was very skilled - and scarfed in some new ends (reinforced with a bit of steel plate which was probable unecessary) and socketed them into the walls having put some DPM around the ends because of the retained moisture.

Worked for us, and saved the lovely beam.

I can see that would be an option for you. In terms of cost, the costof anewbeam versus the labout for scarfingin the new ends was probably pretty similar in the end.

Photos would help us assess though.

 

[MdB]

Photos would help us assess though.

It might also be useful if you could post pics of what you have done FW, it will show what is possible.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Ok - this may take a couple of posts due to the limit of three pics upload, and none of these are online so I can't link to them instead Bear with me...

Step 1

Start with a room with 2 walls completely underground, that has been tanked in polythene for at least 30 years and beams that are either plastered over and painted, or 30 year-old varnished softwood horrors:





If you can, try and ensure you do little to help preserve the ends of the beams - just tank them in.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Step 2 - remove all the tanking and allow the room to dry out for a while before assessing what to do. Whilst this is happening, you can start on the hours and hours and hours of painstaking scraping, washing and klingstipping of those spine beams. The softwood joists make nice firewood. You can start by replacing those nasty varnished softwood joists with some nice air dried oak. Beause the drying out takes a while, you have time to shape the joists with a spoke shave, and cut nice stop-chamfers in them.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Step 3 - have a skilled joiner scarf in a new piece of oak at the end of the sodden beam, where it was socketed into a wall that is below ground level with no protection. To be fair to the original builders in the C16/17th, we don't think this wall was originally below ground level.

A little bit of steel plate never harmed anyone!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Step 4 - protect the ends of the beam this time. OK - we know it is plastic and sitting in concr3te ( :roll: ) but we were less knowledgeable at the time. And lowering those ground levels by 8 feet is still on the list of things to do. In the meantime this repair will last the grandkids' grandkids out I hope.

 

[Feltwell]

That's a nice and very "honest" repair FW. The steel plate may be overkill, but is definitely something I would have done as well - and even though it is visible I think it's fine, it shows a repair has been done and is now part of the story of the house.

Love the varnished softwood joists by the way - especially the wavy edge - can't see why you wanted to get rid of those..........

Hopefully, JanJonWestWales, that has persuaded you to keep your original beam. Once it's gone, it's gone for good - and a nice neat repair, even if visible, is just part of the character of an old house.

 

[JanJonWestWales]

Excellent pictures, thanks so much. definately convinced me that the beam can be saved.
I will post pictures of the state of ours next weekend.

 

[middi]

Good repairs FW. I am so glad you got rid of thr " fake" wavy joists, the new ones are much more in keeping.

Middi

 

[Flyfisher]

Quite apart from the 'honest repair' thing, I really think that repair looks great - far better than a complete new piece of wood, even with the steel plate. The cutting of those beams is so wonderfully accurate that I'd be only too proud to show off my workmanship if I was capable of such a skilled repair.

 

[worms]

Quite apart from the 'honest repair' thing, I really think that repair looks great - far better than a complete new piece of wood, even with the steel plate. The cutting of those beams is so wonderfully accurate that I'd be only too proud to show off my workmanship if I was capable of such a skilled repair.

Looks fantastic. So how do they cut the beam for this type of repair so accurately and match in the new piece? Is it all good old-fashioned by-eye stuff or do they have some sort of jig and a big electric saw?