Replacing damaged lathe and lime ceiling?

[Cubist]

Or a rhinoceros!

More perishing zoo animals. Well at least it's not an elephant this time.

 

[Zebra]

More perishing zoo animals. Well at least it's not an elephant this time.

Zoo??!! Take that back, sir! I'll have you know we are free animals from the African Savannah!

 

[Cubist]

Apologies to the naturalists - good job I looked up from my keyboard pecking, that nearly came out as naturists! - but here in these, currently, less than sunny climes, the more exotic species are typically found to be captive rather than free ranging. But then the wildlife in your neck of the woods may be more adventurous and perhaps my predictive text gaffe was maybe quite accurate.

 

[Pogonation]

Took a long time but nearly there. In the end, used acoustic rockwool RW3 for heat and sound insulation. There are 2 joint spaces at each end without any insulation as that would have required pulling the cornicing down for access. Unfortunately there may be the odd gap between masonry and rockwool batts at the sides as it was hard to get it down a 1m tunnel and ensure securely against masonry so there will likely be some sound leakage and heat escape.

Laths now up and warmcote best of lime in 3 layers going on starting Monday . Will be nice to have a living room again.

 

[Drayton]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Pogonation]

3rd and final coat going up today. Plasterer has used best of lime ready mixed product throughout and advised that it should be fine to paint after 4 weeks provided a very breathable paint is used.

I have read a lot of people on here saying to wait 3-6 months or 1 week per mm (there’s about 15mm here). Aparently best of lime product cures faster and I suspect it helps being a ceiling in that it can breath 2 directions (unlike solid walls which will mainly breath into your room).

Anyone agree that I should be fine to go ahead after a few weeks.. also was planning on F&B estate emulsion with an SD value of 0.010 however I have seen people recommend their casein distemper with an SD value of 0.008. The improved breathability seems minimal, is it really worth it?

 

[Cubist]

Provided the paint cannot weaken the internal bonds of the plaster My thoughts would agree with your guy and aim for 4 weeks. A great job by the way by the plasterer and yourself. Not many would have made the commitment to the traditional approaches and materials.

 

[Lacan07]

View attachment 10173

3rd and final coat going up today. Plasterer has used best of lime ready mixed product throughout and advised that it should be fine to paint after 4 weeks provided a very breathable paint is used.

I have read a lot of people on here saying to wait 3-6 months or 1 week per mm (there’s about 15mm here). Aparently best of lime product cures faster and I suspect it helps being a ceiling in that it can breath 2 directions (unlike solid walls which will mainly breath into your room).

Anyone agree that I should be fine to go ahead after a few weeks.. also was planning on F&B estate emulsion with an SD value of 0.010 however I have seen people recommend their casein distemper with an SD value of 0.008. The improved breathability seems minimal, is it really worth it?

That looks amazing, full compliments to the plasterer! Best of luck for the final coat.

I tried plastering the ceiling in my small bedroom and it almost killed me, lol.

 

[LadyArowana]

Really good work. I’ve been following this with interest as an area of ceiling in the communal corridor of our Edwardian block is being re-done as part of a general internal redecoration…… It’s not being done like this, more’s the pity, but I don’t get a choice.

 

[RBailey]

Looks good.

If you wanted to wait longer you could always give it a lime wash (cheap and very breathable) and that would at least give you a white ceiling to look at while it dries more.

Cheers,
Richard B.

 

[Pogonation]

Final coat on and starting to look the part. Being smoothed out today and cornicing being repaired/finished off. Ceiling rose going up next weekend.

Thanks @Cubist he really has done a great job. He only does heritage and listed buildings so he knows what he’s doing! It has been a hard slog living out of bedrooms, kitchen and bathroom with no living room but I think it will be worth it in the end! Very lucky that most of the cornicing seemed to be well attached and some slightly loose bits have been fixed in place to joists with 80mm screws. Part of the cornicing at the near end (not on photos) has come down but mould taken and replica made by the plasterer is going up today!

@Lacan07 Thanks a lot! Yeah I can imagine it is hard work. Plasterer says that’s what puts a lot of lads getting into it (despite the improved money).. it’s back breaking hard work!

That’s a good idea @RBailey . Can limewash be used as the final coat? The whole room is being decorated so would be nice to get ceiling done before doing walls and woodwork to prevent any unwanted speckles etc.

@LadyArowana What are they doing with your communal hallway? Just standard plasterboard? Does seem a shame especially when the increased cost could likely be shared among many.

New replica moulding going in:

 

[Pogonation]

The finished article. Ready for ceiling rose and a decorative ring around the rose at weekend.

 

[LadyArowana]

@LadyArowana What are they doing with your communal hallway? Just standard plasterboard? Does seem a shame especially when the increased cost could likely be shared among many.

They are doing a very major refurbishment, so all new wiring for everything to be upgraded, lots of chasing in, you name it, plus all the twiddly bits like light fixtures, carpets. It’s already costing loads of money, so even split between everyone ( two mansion blocks, one freehold ) it’s fairly serious. They have discovered a few surprises, which aren’t actually that much of a surprise to me, but of course were not in the initial budget. So it’s a case of take down unsafe ceiling and replace with plasterboard and make it look nice. We aren’t listed.

I have to ignore that which is outside our front door as some bad decisions have been made ( blasting our lovely old brick for example ) and I never got any traction to stop it. For the brick cleaning I had a very well qualified friend write up an opinion and passed it to the board at the time, they just went with ‘it’ll look prettier afterwards’. Sad.

 

[malcolm]

You've done well to retain the original cornicing. That would have gone in the skip with plaster boarding. It's very rare to see work better than I could do myself and the ceiling is a real credit to the craftsmen you have on site. The work is impressive and looks right.

For the time to leave before paint (so long as you use a breathable paint) it's normally about colours seeping out with the water as the lime dries and staining the paint. I once limewashed a dark exterior render a week after applying it because I wanted the scaffolding down. I did get stains but only in small areas. The plasterer's suggestion of 4 weeks sounds very safe.

I'm a fan of Earthborne clay paint for it's coverage. Whatever you choose you should be able to fist paint the cornice and then get on with the walls.

 

[RBailey]

That’s a good idea @RBailey . Can limewash be used as the final coat? The whole room is being decorated so would be nice to get ceiling done before doing walls and woodwork to prevent any unwanted speckles etc.

Yes
(However, you do need at least three coats if you want it to be the finish coat.)

 

[CS591]

Piggy backing off this thread...1930's detached house...Had a major water escape in loft over Christmas which has seriously affected two rooms. Insurance are going to pay fortunately and use their own builders. The rooms are currently being continuously dried out with fans & de-humidifiers. Walls and ceilings still damp in places. Ceilings are the old lath & plaster. From what I can see where some of the plaster has come away the laths are in good order. Their building company surveyor seems to be suggesting that the ceilings are taken down and replaced with plasterboard - which to me like a default cleaner and more logical thing to do. My brother (who I co-own the property with) is of the view that once the ceiling has fully dried out (if that is possible with Midlands weather) it is better to just plasterboard over it. His points are: 1. the old ceiling will provide a layer of noise insulation and heat insulation 2. less general upheaval and mess. I'm uneasy with this. Is there then a possibility of residual damp causing toxic mold, wet rot and dry rot that can spread through the joists? What about the excess weight on the joists? Would the lowered ceiling make the existing frieze (area above picture rail) look odd? Building works guarantee - would that be affected if we say just plasterboard over? Can the left alone lath and plaster ceiling give way in parts in the future and fall onto the plasterboard ceiling and damage it? Makes more sense to me to pull down the old ceiling with plasterboard. What's the view? Although if the laths and joists are in good order, is a traditional replastering job over the laths (as in above thread) an option worth discussing with them? That would be the best solution although it would involve artisan work which might not be covered under the insurance

 

[MatthewC]

@CS591. A few thoughts. I would think that the insurance should cover reinstatement of the lime plaster ceiling (although there might be some "betterment"), so doing it with plasterboard is saving them money! Also your CO might want to be involved if you use plasterboard. However, if you go that way, the plasterboard would screwed through the lath and plaster to pick up on the joists, thereby holding it all up - nothing is going to fall through.

If you are worried about residual damp then let it dry out by not putting down any insulation above the lath (except possibly sheep's wool) for a year or two (assuming you have a ventilated loft). I don't think there's any risk of "toxic mould, wet rot and dry rot" unless you have that already.

Last, removal of laths and plaster from a ceiling is one of the dirtiest jobs I have ever done - the dust gets everywhere. I mentioned this is my blog, when my wife and I went back up the road to our car after doing this job, feeling rather like the dinner party at the end of "Carry On Up the Khyber". So putting up plasterboard is only cleaner if you do NOT remove the lath!

 

[CS591]

@MatthewC thanks for this. The two rooms are an upstairs bedroom and the sitting room below it. My preferred option is for the reinstatement of original lath & plaster ceilings and/or just repair the damaged bits if possible. Original fabric of house and in keeping etc,
However, If the insurers refuse to go down that route because of betterment etc , ithen it is a case of remove existing ceilings and replace with plasterboard vs keep damaged original ceiling and stick up plasterboard underneath it. It seems you are recommending the latter option? With the sitting room ceiling could that "space" between the plasterboard and the old ceiling be a nursery for mould and rot?

 

[malcolm]

Worth starting a new thread with photos of the ceiling damage. I also had a massive water leak that damaged some ceilings. A skim worked in the bedroom ceiling (covering up an asbestos finish. The downstairs ceiling must be original 1600ish. It dried out and I've filled the cracks. I'm planning to use lining paper to get a decent finish. I don't want to mess with it.

I wouldn't like overboarding with plasterboard for much the same reasons as you suggested.

 

[Lacan07]

@MatthewC thanks for this. The two rooms are an upstairs bedroom and the sitting room below it. My preferred option is for the reinstatement of original lath & plaster ceilings and/or just repair the damaged bits if possible. Original fabric of house and in keeping etc,
However, If the insurers refuse to go down that route because of betterment etc , ithen it is a case of remove existing ceilings and replace with plasterboard vs keep damaged original ceiling and stick up plasterboard underneath it. It seems you are recommending the latter option? With the sitting room ceiling could that "space" between the plasterboard and the old ceiling be a nursery for mould and rot?

People plasterboard over lath & plaster ceilings all the time, it should be fine as long as the joists can take the extra weight. A perfectionist might prefer to remove the remaining lath & plaster before applying the plaster board but its a dirty job and you lose the excellent sound proofing of the old lath & plaster.

Obviously keeping it all original is better but I doubt the insurance will like the extra cost. You could try and argue its for the betterment of the house but are the walls & ceilings / wallpaper / paint really breathable? If not whats the point.