eezageeza
Member
- Messages
- 138
- Location
- Shropshire
i think the stove regs are that you have to have at least 12 inches of non-combusible flooring in front of the stove (so that sparks can't ignite it presumably).
- Thread starter robgil
- Start date
Flyfisher
Member
- Messages
- 10,169
- Location
- Norfolk, UK
MdB said:
Interesting. I wonder if a line of different tiles would be acceptable as demarcation?
Or how about pammets under and around the stove to the required dimensions and then floorboards level with the pamments? That would certainly give a well-defined visual (and tactile) demarcation.
I'm interested in this because I'm intending to install a stove and would prefer the base to be level with the floor.
Flyfisher said:
We were told you need a minimum of 9" in front and to the sides of the stove - if the floor surfaces aren't combustible then you need a step of 10mm (IIRC might have been 12mm). We laid 12" pamments under the stove/hearth and 9" were laid everywhere else. The builders grumped this step was a trip hazard, which it only is if you intend to walk into the stove in our house. The stove people said if the floor was level it wouldn't comply regardless of the hearth and floor being solid ceramic on screed because it would theoretically be possible for an idiot to lay a carpet over the floor up to the stove.
At the end of the day you need a HEATAS compliant installation and the installer self certifies - so its their interpretation that has the biggest impact. I have a little metal plaque that shows the stove is compliant and they informed building control.
I was told there was no chance at all that my stove would be follow up inspected as it was on a solid floor infront of an exposed brick wall.
That isn't what the regs say.AMc said:
Gap around back and sides of stove has to be 150mm if the wall is not heat resistant. If it is, you can fit the stove as close as you like. (Ref Diag 26 Doc J)
A change of level is also not required in front of the stove however this is the easiest way to discourage the fitting of carpets etc up to the stove. There is no spec for the height change needed. A change of surface type - say wood to stone - "may" be enough to be visually apparent (Section 2.26 Doc J) but I would want to speak to BC to confirm this.
Sorry to butt in guys 
but my oak arrived today, well , it didnt arrive as such, I collected it. :lol:
Anyhow, a few questions before I proceed to rip my old wall apart.
I got some pegs , they are dowel rod rather than pegs. The dont taper. Should I put a taper on them? I dont see the point of having them untapered because as the Oak dries and shrinks the peg will just fall out, unless it is tapered and I can just whak it back in tight again. They are 3/4''. Would it be wise to use glue also?
Also , any tips on cutting a half lap joint into existing studs supported by air hooks?
The Oak is green, it is about 1/4 inch too big, it should shrink so I see no need to plane it down but would you bother to sand it?
This is how I intend to fit it.
Cut lap joint into the existing studs supported by air hooks.
Cut new stud sections ready to be scarfed into existing with tennons one end/half lap joint on the other.
Cut sole plate to size and cut mortises to fit scarfed studs on air hooks.
Use two car jacks to raise sole plate into position,
Rebuild soft red brick plinth ontop of shallow lime mortar and flint foundation and use slate and lime mortar to shim between top of plinth and bottom of sole plate.
but my oak arrived today, well , it didnt arrive as such, I collected it. :lol: Anyhow, a few questions before I proceed to rip my old wall apart.
I got some pegs , they are dowel rod rather than pegs. The dont taper. Should I put a taper on them? I dont see the point of having them untapered because as the Oak dries and shrinks the peg will just fall out, unless it is tapered and I can just whak it back in tight again. They are 3/4''. Would it be wise to use glue also?
Also , any tips on cutting a half lap joint into existing studs supported by air hooks?
The Oak is green, it is about 1/4 inch too big, it should shrink so I see no need to plane it down but would you bother to sand it?
This is how I intend to fit it.
Cut lap joint into the existing studs supported by air hooks.
Cut new stud sections ready to be scarfed into existing with tennons one end/half lap joint on the other.
Cut sole plate to size and cut mortises to fit scarfed studs on air hooks.
Use two car jacks to raise sole plate into position,
Rebuild soft red brick plinth ontop of shallow lime mortar and flint foundation and use slate and lime mortar to shim between top of plinth and bottom of sole plate.
If you intend to tenon the studs into a sole plate mortice, it does not make the slightest bit of difference if if the peg is straight or tapered.
The weight of the wall will "push" the stud tight against the sole plate mortice shoulder and the ( eventuallly) twisting action of the green oak will lock the stud in the mortice, therefore stop it from " rattling). To save yourself some time, drill both the stud and the mortace simultaneously with a drill one or two mm smaller tha the peg, THEN, plane off 5 or 6 square edges from the peg, put a small taper at one end, and then "WACK IT"in the hole
There is no need at this joint to " pull" the joints toghether. ( you need offset holes to achieve this and not necessary on sole plates)
Middi
The weight of the wall will "push" the stud tight against the sole plate mortice shoulder and the ( eventuallly) twisting action of the green oak will lock the stud in the mortice, therefore stop it from " rattling). To save yourself some time, drill both the stud and the mortace simultaneously with a drill one or two mm smaller tha the peg, THEN, plane off 5 or 6 square edges from the peg, put a small taper at one end, and then "WACK IT"in the hole
There is no need at this joint to " pull" the joints toghether. ( you need offset holes to achieve this and not necessary on sole plates)
Middi
Right then guys , I think this may just be asthetic however I could be wrong , but, what would you do?
One stud is coming down at a slight angle, do I scarf the new timber in so it goes down straight which could give it more strength (I Dont Know) or do I follow the angle of the original stud above?
I know there is probably no 'proper' way to do this but thought I would ask all the same.
Inexpert opinion ahoy!
I would expect that B would be stronger than A in vertical compression. In the same way you could restrain more weight on locked legs at an angle vs. bent legs with your calves straight up.
I think B "looks" right but I'm not a structural engineer or a joiner.
I would expect that B would be stronger than A in vertical compression. In the same way you could restrain more weight on locked legs at an angle vs. bent legs with your calves straight up.
I think B "looks" right but I'm not a structural engineer or a joiner.
Keithj
Member
- Messages
- 817
- Location
- Witnesham, Suffolk
I would go for B, but do something to stop the two pieces slipping.
We had some "joints" in studs in our house where the join was diagonal, and the two halves slipped from side to side.
The subsequent fix, nailing bits of untreated timber to each side, stopped it slipping further but I rather doubt the original intent was met!
We had some "joints" in studs in our house where the join was diagonal, and the two halves slipped from side to side.
The subsequent fix, nailing bits of untreated timber to each side, stopped it slipping further but I rather doubt the original intent was met!
tobydog
Member
- Messages
- 923
- Location
- South Suffolk
Another non-expert opinion but I would say definitely B for the reasons mentioned. I can't see how you can have anywhere near as much strength in A. It comes from reading many books and watching too much renovation TV but I've never seen an A.
The Joints will be half lap with a peg through the middle so no chance of it slipping, they will me tenoned into the sole plate so no chance of slipping there either. I was under the impression that any downward force would be straight down so either A or B will be just as weak as eachother, not that there is much compression, at present the three studs are hanging in mid air and have been as I cut a half lap joint into them.
I will try and get some photos before I am done but we dont have a camera at the moment, whoever had our wheelie bin came back and cleaned out my car, amongst various other bits and bobs they had my camera away. :evil:
I will try and get some photos before I am done but we dont have a camera at the moment, whoever had our wheelie bin came back and cleaned out my car, amongst various other bits and bobs they had my camera away. :evil:
FamilyWiggs
Member
- Messages
- 3,452
- Location
- Flintshire, N Wales.
robgil said:
I'm really sorry to hear that Rob.
Little barstewards.My own stupid fault for leaving the car unlocked FW, although it has a canvas roof so I probably saved myself the cost of a new roof by doing so. Still , word gets around little villages like this quite quickly so you never know.
Anyhow I have dug out my old mini DV recorder, not the best but it takes photos so I will get some of the progress I have made so far, I have taken out the old plate , or what was left of it and also the plinth underneath it, I have one more section to cut for the last stud repair then I can mortise the new plate and try and fix it to the corner post, it was done previousley with a steel section but the plinth under the corner post has deteriorated badly also.
I think when Middi had a look he mentioned cutting a tenon into the plate and a mortise into the corner post so if all goes well this is what I shall do.
Anyhow I have dug out my old mini DV recorder, not the best but it takes photos so I will get some of the progress I have made so far, I have taken out the old plate , or what was left of it and also the plinth underneath it, I have one more section to cut for the last stud repair then I can mortise the new plate and try and fix it to the corner post, it was done previousley with a steel section but the plinth under the corner post has deteriorated badly also.
I think when Middi had a look he mentioned cutting a tenon into the plate and a mortise into the corner post so if all goes well this is what I shall do.