Renovation of a timber framed medieval cottage

[middi]

Hi Penners
Intelligent cotribution to this site is my( new) motto, hence the lack of contribution for a while. Rather worrying really.

( Either I am going senile or I must have been pretty thick from the start)

If this is due to the "odd" trips to Norfolk, we should all pray for Flyfisher,s health

 

[JMartin]

I don't know if this helps in your situation or not but we bought a house that we had fallen in love with and paid what was asked despite it being worth much less. We paid for a full building survey that came with lots of ifs and buts that we didn't notice until it was too late...simply because we love the place and were desperate to have it.

The only person who was of any use to us in determining the full extent of the problems was the local builder. He has been fixing local houses for many years and was able to tell us what was really wrong. He couldn't do any of the work because he was too busy but he spent a long time telling us what to do and how to do it, find the tools, etc. I trust him more than any other professional because he has the experience and had nothing to gain from his assessment of the problem.

The so-called professionals in damp and timber told us a pack of lies, the most annoying being that we have woodworm and all joists would need to be replaced. Let's just say my husband followed their respresentative around and he would have needed x-ray vision to see the joists. Interestingly the surveyor also told us we have woodworm which we don't unless ours are particularly good at covering their exit holes.

Maybe the best course of action you could take given the advice you have had is to ask a local builder to take a look at what really needs to be done and give you an estimate of the costs involved...of course you'll never know the full extent of the problem until you start work.

 

[KayW]

Thank you all for your comments - all appreciated by a complete novice!

Middi - I agree entirely that this cottage needs to be conserved and do not want to do anything to harm the property for time spent researching what’s best for it and getting in the right technical assistance. The array of opinions from professionals is rather scary for my first renovation and am worried I may bite off more than I can chew. I wish money was no object but I do not want to do a halfhearted job that does more harm then good.

From reading your well thought out response I need to find a very experienced hands on restorer to deal with the timber frame and ensure any work is necessary and uses the correct sympathetic methodology. I would then be happy to learn how to replace the infills using the current bricks or wattle and daub. I have taken a year off work to get this renovation started and then may go back part time while still renovating so I certainly have the time. We had a budget for the renovations of both cottages which we thought was adequate before we knew how damaged the frame could be. It may now just be a case of going back to the sellers to reduce the price so we can get the best restorer in to ensure the frame is restored with restoration and not reproduction in mind.

Thank you for your input.

Anita- well done for having the perseverance through four years of what must have been a very hard slog. I will certainly look more carefully at the site for any other possible causes of the damp. Best of luck!

Penners - "Suck it and see" is what I am scared of! But I think you are right this is something you have to get used to if you want to give such an old building the tlc is requires. What I really need is to know more about the building and make decisions as I go along but when you have to decide whether to purchase the property or not you do not have this luxury- and that is scary. Hopefully when the render is removed we can replace damaged timbers with minimal damage to the infills - its just taking the risk at this stage of how much could be damaged. There would nothing worse then buying the two cottages and not having enough money to give it the treatment it deserves.

The roof on the listed cottage is ok but will need the slates replacing in a few years due to nail fatigue and therefore the surveyor is suggesting that this is completed while the frame is being restored. The roof on the mid 19c cottage is at the end of its life and so we need to do this one anyway - also nail fatigue- slipped slates and lots of clips! The surveyor is hopeful that most of the timbers in the roof are ok but there is no internal access so this is just based on a visual inspection.

It is so difficult to tell whether our historic building consultant is a good one or not. I am too much of a novice! - some of the things such as an injected dpc in the mid 19c cottage I did not agree with but he also suggested the brick plinth to rest the sole plate, albeit underpinning the plinth. With regards to adding a dpm between the plinth and the sole plate - I find it so hard to know when to add modern material or whether sticking to the original is right - I will continue to investigate with an open mind!

Thank you for your comments.

skier-hughes - thanks for the heads up on NR. We were having an 85% mortgage on the purchase price, we have the remaining cash for the renovation and deposit so not sure what they will require. Will certainly check into it with my IFA following your comments.

Will let you know how it goes from here!

Thank you

K

 

[skier-hughes]

skier-hughes - thanks for the heads up on NR. We were having an 85% mortgage on the purchase price, we have the remaining cash for the renovation and deposit so not sure what they will require. Will certainly check into it with my IFA following your comments.

Will let you know how it goes from here!

Thank you

K

We borrowed slightly more than 50% and they weres till socautious you'd have thought we were borrowing 90% plus, but then again we were using self certification, having sold one business and started another and my wife had left work to start her own business we were pretty restrictd to who we could borrow from!!
Since our fixed rate ended they gave us another fixed rate which was better than any other source, so I'm happy with them.

Graham

 

[Penners]

Hi Penners
Intelligent contribution to this site is my( new) motto

Oh no! That rules me out forever.

 

[Penners]

"Suck it and see" is what I am scared of! But I think you are right this is something you have to get used to if you want to give such an old building the tlc is requires. What I really need is to know more about the building and make decisions as I go along but when you have to decide whether to purchase the property or not you do not have this luxury- and that is scary.

I entirely sympathise, Kay. However, it may reassure you to know that we've all been down that road. No matter how much advice you seek, professional or otherwise, buying an old building is always ultimately an act of faith.

I reckon a considerable proportion of DIY old house restorers start their first project knowing little or nothing. They learn as they go along, and tackle their projects a step at a time. If repairing one problem exposes another (and believe me - this will happen!) then they think again, re-plan, seek advice (often from this forum) and bit by bit expand their knowledge and experience.

You're right. It is scary. But as time goes on it becomes less so, and the fear turns into immense enjoyment and satisfaction. The most important qualities that you need are perseverence and a genuine desire to do right by your building.

Good luck. I hope your purchase works out, and do keep us posted.

 

[KayW]

Sorry about the 3 month delay in replying. Unfortunately we had to pull out of the purchase of these two cottages as the frame was just so bad it needed complete restoration. I was heart broken hence the delay in this update.

Luckily a few months later we found another two cottages almost identical to these but in a better location. The two cottages were previously the old vicarage and are surrounded by fields and a norman church. They are also late medieval and need some, but not so extensive (we hope), repairs to the timberframe. This will be mainly on the sole plates plus some wattle and daub repairs which we are hoping to do ourselves.

We are currently progressing through the purchase and I expect I will be posting soon as our renovation begins and I am in dire need of all your helpful advice!

Will keep you posted. :shock:

 

[Nemesis]

Don't call it renovation. Call it repair. It's a different philosophy!

However, it's usually the case that something better comes along where 'lost' houses are concerned.

Do join SPAB. Best cash you will spend.

 

[Penners]

repairs to the timberframe.

Surely it's what you do that matters, not what you call it.

If I replace a rotten oak stud with a new one, I am repairing and renovating.

 

[Nemesis]

Look, I'm a SPABBIE. I signed a declaration when I joined that I would Spread the Word.

I do. It's repair.