Penners
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Lucky devil! May I touch the hem of his gown?AMc said:
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As you asked...
1992
2006
Both show the western side of the house, you can see the previous owners did a lot of work adding windows that changed the appearance. To the left is the 1750's part of the house. The leanto brick scullery is 1858 (see photo below) with the glazed porch appearing to be later still. The original 1750's house appears to end in the middle of the picture above the porch.
Upstairs in the rear section there is a disconnected 20C bathroom and then separate toilet (toilet window is at knee height with plain glass!) then a solid brick wall with a cut through doorway into two later bedrooms above the cold stores. I also discovered a big puddle yesterday which I hope is just a blocked cast iron downpipe.
Downstairs the extension has an old kitchen and then a shortened chimney stack separating a later bathroom converted from yet another cold store.
"JAMES EVANS+J BENNS+MARCH+31+1858+"
This on the wall over the entrance into the house from inside the brick lean-to .
1992
2006
This shows the vinery, currently my biggest worry and likely the biggest expense. The panel of glazing 2nd from the right is hanging by a thread thanks to the vine beneath it to growing inside and outside the window (clearly visible in the 1992 photo). The trunks have grown too wide for the openings in the wall/sill and have blown the wood apart. As it wasn't painted it's rotted badly. Only one of the vines was still left when we bought and the surveyor advised stopping it from growing or it could accelerate the decay of the vinery
No shifting the beggar either, roots all over the place.
This is how the coachhouse looked. The previous owners repaired the wierd garage extension and reinstated the original opening, they also raised the roof and added gable ends. Went up there yesterday and discovered a stack of wall cavity insulation boarding, a load of rubble, wood wormed boards and bird plop. I know they had PP for renovation as a garage, but I have to assume they had bigger plans at some point.
Floorplan
Shows roughly how it's laid out at the moment, if we can open out the cold stores it will make a good sized kitchen diner, otherwise it's pretty much useless to us.
1992
2006
Both show the western side of the house, you can see the previous owners did a lot of work adding windows that changed the appearance. To the left is the 1750's part of the house. The leanto brick scullery is 1858 (see photo below) with the glazed porch appearing to be later still. The original 1750's house appears to end in the middle of the picture above the porch.
Upstairs in the rear section there is a disconnected 20C bathroom and then separate toilet (toilet window is at knee height with plain glass!) then a solid brick wall with a cut through doorway into two later bedrooms above the cold stores. I also discovered a big puddle yesterday which I hope is just a blocked cast iron downpipe.
Downstairs the extension has an old kitchen and then a shortened chimney stack separating a later bathroom converted from yet another cold store.
"JAMES EVANS+J BENNS+MARCH+31+1858+"
This on the wall over the entrance into the house from inside the brick lean-to .
1992
2006
This shows the vinery, currently my biggest worry and likely the biggest expense. The panel of glazing 2nd from the right is hanging by a thread thanks to the vine beneath it to growing inside and outside the window (clearly visible in the 1992 photo). The trunks have grown too wide for the openings in the wall/sill and have blown the wood apart. As it wasn't painted it's rotted badly. Only one of the vines was still left when we bought and the surveyor advised stopping it from growing or it could accelerate the decay of the vinery
No shifting the beggar either, roots all over the place.
This is how the coachhouse looked. The previous owners repaired the wierd garage extension and reinstated the original opening, they also raised the roof and added gable ends. Went up there yesterday and discovered a stack of wall cavity insulation boarding, a load of rubble, wood wormed boards and bird plop. I know they had PP for renovation as a garage, but I have to assume they had bigger plans at some point.
Floorplan
Shows roughly how it's laid out at the moment, if we can open out the cold stores it will make a good sized kitchen diner, otherwise it's pretty much useless to us.
More pictures and a new question...
I was investigating my lovely pammet floor in the vinery and noticed a larger stone in the centre was loose. I had a peer underneath to discover what they're layed on and heard a 'plop'.
So I lifted the stone and found a 2'x2'x3' tank. The water level is about 2'6". The water in it seems to be clear and fresh so I'm assuming it's rainwater? I stuck my camera down there and took some pictures, it looks like it's tiled. One phot showed some rusty pipes going in so it's clearly fed by something or was once pumped up into something. Any ideas what it is and what it was for?
I was investigating my lovely pamme
t floor in the vinery and noticed a larger stone in the centre was loose. I had a peer underneath to discover what they're layed on and heard a 'plop'.So I lifted the stone and found a 2'x2'x3' tank. The water level is about 2'6". The water in it seems to be clear and fresh so I'm assuming it's rainwater? I stuck my camera down there and took some pictures, it looks like it's tiled. One phot showed some rusty pipes going in so it's clearly fed by something or was once pumped up into something. Any ideas what it is and what it was for?
Penners
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In view of its location, it seems likely to be a sump for storing surface water, for watering the plants.
stickybeak
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.
Thanks stickybeak - I looked at that list when I registered and looking busily for "Architects", "Conservation Architects" etc. missed "Architectural Services" Feel faintly foolish now that was just what I wanted.
Penners - that was what I thought too. Two mysteries remain though - how does the water get in and how does one get it out again? I presume lifting that dirty great slab wasn't the usual mechanism but I can't find any sign of the pipework elsewhere. There is redundant plumbing aplenty back there, but no pump tap or other obvious outlet.
I'm also puzzled as the vines are rooted outside the vinery and trained in at the dwarf wall and up under the glass - so the logical place to water the roots would be outside...I guess I'll keep digging
Thanks
AMc
Penners - that was what I thought too. Two mysteries remain though - how does the water get in and how does one get it out again? I presume lifting that dirty great slab wasn't the usual mechanism but I can't find any sign of the pipework elsewhere. There is redundant plumbing aplenty back there, but no pump tap or other obvious outlet.
I'm also puzzled as the vines are rooted outside the vinery and trained in at the dwarf wall and up under the glass - so the logical place to water the roots would be outside...I guess I'll keep digging
Thanks
AMc
Nemesis
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There may have been more than vines there though. It is usual to put a vine outside (planted over a dead horse...) but to only use that space for a vine seems a waste.
The water may have come in via a pipe (roof gutter?) and been stored and the excess go out via an overflow? If no pipework it may have been filled manually. It could have had water taken from it by dipping a can.
The slab may not be original. There could have been something else - metal grate, wood even.
The water may have come in via a pipe (roof gutter?) and been stored and the excess go out via an overflow? If no pipework it may have been filled manually. It could have had water taken from it by dipping a can.
The slab may not be original. There could have been something else - metal grate, wood even.
Penners
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AMc - aren't there two pipes (one of them very corroded) in the left-hand corner of the photograph above (the one that shows the tiles)? If I'm mistaken then, as Nemesis suggests, there may have been some other route for the water to enter that has since been lost. I still feel that it was probably fed with surface water from the roof (and maybe other sources).
Planting a vine with its roots outside, and the trunk then routed inside the glasshouse was/is common practice.
Planting a vine with its roots outside, and the trunk then routed inside the glasshouse was/is common practice.
Yes, I got that picture by sticking my camera phone right inside and taking flash pictures in all directions.
As I said the water is crystal clear - which suggests it's filling and there is an over flow out of it - if it were stagnant for years it would stink wouldn't it?
Some of the original cast iron rain goods are still in place including a downpipe inside one corner. My guess is there is a feed off that under the floor into this 'cystern'. (I imagine) The other pipe would be to draw the water back up but I can't find out where it comes out until we lift the floor as part of the renovation.
I guess I was hoping someone would say 'oh all Victorian vineries had one of those, there would have been a hand pump on the wall to fill a bucket' or 'all vineries had those, there were pipes across the roof to dowse the vines in the evening' etc.
Anyway when we come to working on the floor I'll take a load of pictures and see if I can deduce a bit more of what was there.
As I said the water is crystal clear - which suggests it's filling and there is an over flow out of it - if it were stagnant for years it would stink wouldn't it?
Some of the original cast iron rain goods are still in place including a downpipe inside one corner. My guess is there is a feed off that under the floor into this 'cystern'. (I imagine) The other pipe would be to draw the water back up but I can't find out where it comes out until we lift the floor as part of the renovation.
I guess I was hoping someone would say 'oh all Victorian vineries had one of those, there would have been a hand pump on the wall to fill a bucket' or 'all vineries had those, there were pipes across the roof to dowse the vines in the evening' etc.
Anyway when we come to working on the floor I'll take a load of pictures and see if I can deduce a bit more of what was there.
Nemesis
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Vines would be sprayed, if indeed spraying was required, with a brass hand spray (like a bicycle pump.. I have a couple) which was filled by working the syringe mechanism and by damping the floor.
Dipping a can or the spay wouldn't need a pump. There may have been other things to water in the glasshouse though.
http://www.steptoesantiques.co.uk/acatalog/info_2014Tm.html
There could possibly be something similar under this cover... Osborne House I o W.
http://www.countrylovers.co.uk/hort/vicgardn.htm
Could be a well, or fed by a small spring...
Dipping a can or the spay wouldn't need a pump. There may have been other things to water in the glasshouse though.
http://www.steptoesantiques.co.uk/acatalog/info_2014Tm.html
There could possibly be something similar under this cover... Osborne House I o W.
http://www.countrylovers.co.uk/hort/vicgardn.htm
Could be a well, or fed by a small spring...
It's interesting, I have no more explanation but a little more information I've gleened which may not be wholly accurate .
As I understand it Vineries don't face south as it's too hot for the vine, our faces ENE. Conservatories usually face closer to south or south west. Orangeries usually have glazed roofs and solid walls with heating.
As ours doesn't have any sign of it ever having heating - it probably isn't any kind of tropical house.
You may be able to see in this picture from last November, there are a series of metal poles running across the vinery attached on hooks. It was explained to me that the vines would have been trained across these and when it came to harvest the crop the whole lot would be brought down to ground level. I assume that you would then prune back the whole plant to the root outside and start again next year. That way the vine never got established enough to pull the building apart.
Over the years prior to us getting the house the vines seem to have grown unchecked. A couple died or were removed completely, one has been sawn apart with just the oversized trunk stuck between the cill and dwarf wall. That's just visible beyond the door which is covering the broken windows in the wall caused by it's overgrowth. The last two were in a sorry state, but were pulling the front wall out and splitting the cills so I've had to chop them to stop the glass falling out. They'd grown over the original glazing and under the polycarb roof added on top helping to push the rafters apart.
.As I understand it Vineries don't face south as it's too hot for the vine, our faces ENE. Conservatories usually face closer to south or south west. Orangeries usually have glazed roofs and solid walls with heating.
As ours doesn't have any sign of it ever having heating - it probably isn't any kind of tropical house.
You may be able to see in this picture from last November, there are a series of metal poles running across the vinery attached on hooks. It was explained to me that the vines would have been trained across these and when it came to harvest the crop the whole lot would be brought down to ground level. I assume that you would then prune back the whole plant to the root outside and start again next year. That way the vine never got established enough to pull the building apart.
Over the years prior to us getting the house the vines seem to have grown unchecked. A couple died or were removed completely, one has been sawn apart with just the oversized trunk stuck between the cill and dwarf wall. That's just visible beyond the door which is covering the broken windows in the wall caused by it's overgrowth. The last two were in a sorry state, but were pulling the front wall out and splitting the cills so I've had to chop them to stop the glass falling out. They'd grown over the original glazing and under the polycarb roof added on top helping to push the rafters apart.
Nemesis
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Yes they would be pruned annually once the main framework of rods was trained and established - unlike ours, which simply tales over and grows out of the windows. It faces south too, and manages to ripen grapes without heating. They need pruning during the season also, once the grapes have established.
I can't see why they would need to be brought down to harvest.
http://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/organic/gardenf/index.html
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1100/grape_pruning.asp
I can't see why they would need to be brought down to harvest.
http://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/organic/gardenf/index.html
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1100/grape_pruning.asp
Nemesis
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Apart from the bit about restoring to former glory - GRRR! - thought this could inspire?
I have no connection etc, simply pleased to see the structure repaired so well.
http://www.brinkburnbarn.com/the_gardens_designs_glasshouse_restoration.html
I have no connection etc, simply pleased to see the structure repaired so well.
http://www.brinkburnbarn.com/the_gardens_designs_glasshouse_restoration.html
Which is lovely for the vine, unfortunately we don't have the money or the space to restore ours for that purpose alone. I've had rebuild quotes of £30K for douglas pine and slightly more for european oak + rebuilding the dwarf wall and foundation - that's a very expensive greenhouse and a fairly hefty price per Kg of grapes
.Lovely if you have the space and money anyway though.
Penners
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My grandfather used to use his stirrup pump, left over from the war. It had two fold-down stabilisers on the sides, that you stood on while you pumped.Nemesis said:
Nemesis
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Yes, my father used to use one of those from a well (a shallow one) in the garden!
I had considered getting one to extract water from our burn to water the garden, but we so rarely have dry enough weather to worry.
I had considered getting one to extract water from our burn to water the garden, but we so rarely have dry enough weather to worry.
Good news - yesterdays visiting conservation architect thinks we may be able to rescue the basic structure of the vinery and reglaze to meet part L1B standards. He pointed out a variety of new and interesting ways that successive owners have adjusted and rearranged the house.
Bad news - he doesn't think our £100K+15% fees is enough money but wouldn't be drawn on how much it might take?!? He then started talking about doing the work in multiple phases - which would be lovely, if it didn't make it financially impossible and economically unviable to do the work at all.
Tomorrow an 'eco conservation' architect is coming to have a look see...
Bad news - he doesn't think our £100K+15% fees is enough money but wouldn't be drawn on how much it might take?!? He then started talking about doing the work in multiple phases - which would be lovely, if it didn't make it financially impossible and economically unviable to do the work at all.
Tomorrow an 'eco conservation' architect is coming to have a look see...
Nemesis
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I strikes me an eco(nomic) expert is what you need.
A hundred k not enough - what else have you planned then?
A hundred k not enough - what else have you planned then?