Removing Staining from old pine floor boards.

[John Roche]

Would like some advice re removing staining on old pine floor boards- (Old Rectory, built 1780, Limerick, Ireland)

I have tried Nitro-Mors, Mangans Paint Stripper with steel wool, little success.

I tried an IR "Speed Heater" - No Joy.

I tried a home made mix of water diluted caustic soda/wallpaper paste. This was most severe...maybe the mix was too strong..!!

I don't wish to sand the floor boards.

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks...John

 

[Penners]

What do you mean by "staining"? Are you just talking about the grime that has built up from centuries of feet, or has the wood actually been stained by something - ink, rust, soaked-in unknown liquids... etc?

Have you tried simply scrubbing the boards (along the grain) with a stiff brush and detergent solution? Use old towels to dry off thoroughly as quickly as possible afterwards.

 

[John Roche]

I will be more specific.

On all floors, originally a rug would have been placed in the centre of the room. The un-covered outer edge area was "stained" or painted(I thought "stain" was more appropriate). In later years the rooms were carpeted wall to wall.
I have removed these carpets, and wish to remove the very old, approx. 4 layers of stubborn dark/black stain or paint. I then wish to treat the floor boards with a neutral oil.
I reckon there is no "easy way", but am willing to give any suggestion a try.
A large area to strip/remove/clean.

 

[MdB]

Others have posted about this problem in the past and generally agreed that the "stain" was difficult to get off. You might want to do a search for the thread to see what was suggested before.

One solution that was suggested previously was to lift the floor boards and turn them over to use the other side. This would only work though if the bottom half of the board had been plained like the top surface. Apparantly some old floor boards where only plained on one side to keep the costs down.

 

[Nemesis]

We have the same problem!

There used to be stuff called 'Darkalene' which was used to stain boards in the way described. Proud housewives (or their servants...) used to renew this annually, so it's not a simple matter to remove. It's well soaked in.

You could ask Strippers of Sudbury for advice, but in one room we did resort to sanding, and think we will have to in the one still to be done. If not done too aggressively it can be OK.

Yes it's likely the boards were only smooth on one side, and lifting boards can cause damage too.

 

[Nigel]

We faced exactly the same situation (Scottish house circa 1775). Our approach differed from yours so apologies if this is not very helpful.

We decided we liked the dark boards (personally I think it looks more period than light coloured boards - and you see "brown" boards quite often in houses of this period) but this still left us with a mismatch, where our carpets did not exactly cover the central square. To get past this, after much experimentation, we determined that staining the central square with four coats of a selected stain colour got the central square very close to the dark perimeter. We then applied two coats of stain across the whole floor, unifying the finish.

It worked out very well, you wouldn't notice it now unless you knew it was there, and we think it looks great.

As I said, maybe not what you want to do, but an option if you can't lift the stain.

Good luck!

 

[Nigel]

PS - I would strongly encourage you not to sand. The three dimensional finish of old boards is wonderful and worth retaining. It is these small details that help keep the period feel. Watching location location location last night would have broken your heart when they viewed a late 17th century house that had been completely sanitised internally (including sanded boards).

 

[Nemesis]

Our sanded ones don't really look any different than the way they did before - I think it depends on the boards. They look much the same as the unsanded ones in the other room, texturally.

However, a black ring around the edge of the room wasn't terribly attractive. Nor really was years of grime ingrained in the rest. In fact in times past boards were probably simply sanded frequently by dry scrubbing with silver sand, and the staining was a later fashion.

 

[Nigel]

Must vary depending on board type etc. Ours (upstairs at least) are the original 5 or 6 inch oak and are very rippled/ridged, as the softer grain has worn leaving harder grain ridges. It is quite distinctive and attractive (also brown as oposed to black).

A case by case judgement call I guess based on expected before and after outcomes.

 

[Nemesis]

Yes oak tends to be very much more textured - and looks fine dark - but pine was usually left in a natural state in Geo times and kept clean by dry sanding.

Any woodworm damage needs to be treated very gently - sanding can expose all the channels.

 

[Nemesis]

PS Wordsworth House in Cockermouth has natural pine boards - the recent restoration was detailed in Country Life a few weeks' ago.


http://www.visitcumbria.com/cm/wordhse.htm


It's well worth a visit!

 

[John Roche]

Thanks all for you time, first time I've used the site.
The floor boards are planed on the top only. Areas are well worn, slightly "concaved" with wear, very nice texture too, so sanding is not an option, or I'd prefer not (house is an obsession..ha)

Also over the years some careless painters visited, so lots of paint drops on the floor boards(which had been covered over by a century plus of carpet)

I must paint the floor boards(not first choice) or remove all the staining.

Will see.

Thanks again.

John

 

[Penners]

John - if the darkening of your boards definitely is a stain treatment, then you will find it very difficult to get rid of this without sanding. Woodstain actually sinks into the wood, rather than sitting on top like a paint or varnish.

But as Nemesis has suggested, it could be worth your while to talk to Strippers of Sudbury (click here ) and ask their advice.

 

[Toby Newell]

Hello

Your dark stain is probably bituministic, i.e. derived from coal tar. It is not possible to remove this sufficiently for recoating with another finish without mechanical removal, e.g scraping with a sharp cabinet scraper or sanding.

Your wood probably has a patination several mm or around a quarter of an inch at least depth, sanding will not remove this. Infact you may find, depending upon when the bituminious paint was applied that the wood underneath already has a deficit of patinated colour as the paint is so strong it stops sunlight from patinating the wood substrate. i.e. It is quite possible that the area underneath the stain or paint will actually appear a lighter colour than the rest of your floor.

Sanding with an edge sander with a coarse grit like P24 or P36 is your only option. Otherwise you will have to scrape the finish off with a sharp scraper blade and finish off with wire wool.

I would not use a caustic stripper like the one you made yourself, this WILL irreversibly damage your floor by staining via chemical reaction with the natural wood acids. \please seek my pieces out in the finding out section.

If your boards are cupped and you wish to retain this artefact then scraping will likely leave deep gouges in your floor, really sanding is the best option.

I run a French polishing and floor sanding business and specialise in period properties, I have sanded thousands of floors and must have sanded over a hundred floors with this type of staining. I sand ALL of my floors and still manage to retain patination. The reason people sometimes advise against this is because they do not know how to sand or what can be achieved. And believe me I have spent weeks sanding period beams and floors, even conserving ancient warding/builders marks in 500 year old properties, all involving sanding!

Best regards

Toby Newell
http://www.Floorsanding-uk.com
http://www.Newellpolishers.com

http://www.periodproperty.com/article023.htm
http://www.periodproperty.com/article039.htm

 

[Toby Newell]

This floor belongs to Nigel Watts, it was sanded by hand held machine, the board in the middle was actually new and aged to match. I think the boards either side still show patination.

http://www.floorsanding-uk.com/images/nigelfloor_finished2_large.jpg

It is like everything in life. It wouldn't be advisable for a tree surgeon to do heart surgery with a chain saw, but a heart surgeon may use a power saw to open up a chest.

For someone to say that opening up your chest with a powered saw is totally wrong would be missing the point. The heart surgeon is highly skilled, experienced and uses the best quality tools.

Toby

 

[John Roche]

Toby,
I'm impressed, and thanks a lot for this most useful information.

Fancy a weekend in Ireland(expenses on me)..?

I will telephone you today.

Thanks again.


John

 

[Nemesis]

Blimey Toby - helpful post or blatant advertising?

I think this is verging on the latter.

PS that floor looks like ours. We did it ourselves. We intend to try a couple of Strippers products for the other floor, to see if that has any effect, then lightly hand sand.

I won't be trying that on my Georgian mahogony though.

PATINA Colour derived from age, grease, polish and handling

 

[MdB]

Blimey Toby - helpful post or blatant advertising?

I think this is verging on the latter.

I don't think it was that bad, it contained lots of useful information and entirely appropriate to have a "I do this for a living" bit at the bottom to point out that he does know what he is talking about.

 

[Nemesis]

Well, let's agree to differ.

I don't think I'm alone in my concern; if all who posted here only popped up every now and again to tell us we are all wrong and I will do it for you at a price I think this forum would go rapidly downhill, but there you go.

There's maybe a fine line over which some try not to step.

 

[Nemesis]

Here's what Will Palin did to his floors:

http://www.countrylife.co.uk/property/guidescounty/article/63979/Restoring_wooden_floorboards.html