Remove fibre glass paint?

[paulb33]

Any ideas how to remove this gunk from bricks? My roofer said it was likely to be fibre glass paint….
Paul

http://www.redhouserestoration.wordpress.com

 

[MatthewC]

I'm sorry but what is "glass fibre paint"?

And how did these bricks end up above the tiles? Has someone done something odd like lowering the roof by a foot?

 

[paulb33]

Heaven only knows. The roofer was vague when I asked what it might be and how we might remove it. I assumed it was some kind of water proof paint used for boats that some cowboy has used up there, rather than re-leading it. I'll be paying to get it done right. But some of this horrible stuff will be above the flashing and i'd love to get it off.. I do hope the roof hasn't been lowered…. I think its probably a stepped brick 'corbel'????
Paul

 

[Flyfisher]

I can't help with the removing the paint (apart from suggesting sending a sample to these people: http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/), but I'm wondering if it might be easier to cut away the offending bricks and using a bit more lead for the flashing to cover them all up?

Even with the paint removed they may still look odd and cutting them back might not leave them looking much better, whereas a bit more lead than normal might not be so noticeable. Just an idea.

 

[paulb33]

I can't help with the removing the paint (apart from suggesting sending a sample to these people: http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/)

Great link. They have a product to remove flat roof sealant. Reading the site you've linked, I'm inclined to think this is what the grey gunk is. They describe flat roof paint as an acrylic paint with fibres. I can imagine a cowboy roofer sloshing it around in the early 90s. Sigh.

Will get a trial pot for a tenner and see where it gets me. Would be a shame to lose the prominent feature on the stack, which probably looks ok when back to brick…

Cheers!

Paul

 

[paulb33]

I can't help with the removing the paint (apart from suggesting sending a sample to these people: http://www.stripperspaintremovers.com/)

 

[Zebra]

I don't know much about roofs or paint removal, but for what it's worth, I can't help agreeing with Flyfisher, that those bricks, above the roofline, are always going to be a weak point in terms of water ingress, and it might be better to remove the protruding parts, and cover the whole joint with something reliably protective, like lead flashing.
Having suffered myself from a leaking roof joint, which I did not change because I wanted to keep it the way it was historically, and am now having to cut in flashings retrospectively, I can see the value, given the difficulty of access in your situation, of making sure you get this right the first time.
No harm of course in removing the stuff and taking it from there, but perhaps a further issue might be how to prevent water ingress from this joint. After all, the cowboy builder in the 90s did that for a reason.......

 

[paulb33]

I can't help agreeing with Flyfisher, that those bricks, above the roofline, are always going to be a weak point in terms of water ingress, and it might be better to remove the protruding parts, and cover the whole joint with something reliably protective, like lead flashing. .

Current plan is to cut new lead flashing immediately under those protruding those bricks.

What I know about roofs I've probably already said But, wouldn't those protruding bricks be purposely built to provide a corbel 'drip away' from the underlying flashing. Water would drop away from the lead flashing 'edge', preventing it from tracking into the brickwork and down. Same reason as many chimneys have a corbel at the top.

To my simple mind, these stepped bricks would provide additional protection than a simple straight run of bricks to the lead flashing. Of course, the haunching would have to protect the top of the 'corbel' from water ingress.

Cutting the corbel in half would expose an unfinished brick face to water ingress.

As I say, I could be WAY off base here. Maybe its s purely decorative detail (similar to the brick protrusions on the chimney face...) and thus Trouble.

 

[88v8]

I would think that the sloshing was done because the flashing was perished - or some bodger convinced the then owner that it was perished - and this was an easier 'fix' than replacing what I can see would be a tricky bit of lead-work. Are there signs of leakage in the roof void?

That type of roof paint is actually quite valid and durable, on a flat roof. I bought some years ago for the double-asphalt roof of our garage, it cost £56 for a gallon... that tells you how long ago... Was an absolute basket to mix and apply.

I wouldn't chop the bricks, as you say, a feature and part of the historic fabric.

Ivor

 

[Flyfisher]

I don't have enough knowledge to know if those lower protruding bricks were specifically built that way, but they look too close to the roof tiles to allow, or make it easy, to get any lead flashing underneath them and onto the roof.

Looking at the first photo, I wonder if the top part of the stack has been rebuilt at some stage - though why they would have stepped it back a bit I don't know, so I'm probably wrong about that.

I agree with Ivor's point about the bricks being part of the history of the house but if that is going to compromise the integrity of the roof then it's also bad design.

Perhaps it will be easier to install some effective lead flashing under those bricks than it looks from the photos?

 

[plasticpigeon]

To me the chimney looks the same as on the architects drawings that were put up on another thread and are also on the blog. Those drawings show the protruding bricks at the base, so I don't think it's been changed. All the pictures of the house from the 80s show it looking nicer than today. The previous owners were not kind to it I wonder if Stuart45 will pop up and solve this problem too, he often pops up with little pearls of wisdom!

 

[paulb33]

To me the chimney looks the same as on the architects drawings that were put up on another thread and are also on the blog.

Yes: its original.

I've had another root around. It looks like they've added a felt fillet to the flashing and gone over with flat roof paint. Also, they may have filled the overhang on some of those bricks. I've posted more pictures on the blog, which may better illustrate what I mean. (www.redhouserestoration.wordpress.com)

I also had a look in the roof space. Initially, it looked pretty scary. But, on closer inspection the timbers were all dry and no obvious damp. I guess the white crystals are evidence of SOME moisture ingress??? It didn't feel wet, though. Could it be the flat roof paint having a nasty effect on the roof timbers??

Thanks for everyone's assistance!

Paul

 

[MdB]

Just so you know, fibre glass paint is paint with fibre glass in it...

Horrible gloopy stuff but loved by roofers as you can fix leaks with it by painting it on whilst it is still raining. The fibres allow it to go over cracks and the like to give a finish which will be waterproof for a while. Its good until you want to get rid of it...

 

[DJH]

I've come across situations similar to this in the past where an architect/designer has introduced some quirkiness into a building I suspect either to buck the trend or, more likely in this situation, to have a drip or corbel above the lead flashing to help prevent the ingress of water by protecting the lead where it’s tucked into the mortar joints. An added effect could well have been an intention to have a shadow line and also give the appearance of the chimney reducing down in size as it breaks through the roof.

What I suspect has gone wrong with these good intentions is that the corbelled bricks have been built in too low down matching the rafter line rather than the finished tiled roof line. This happens even nowadays where built in cavity trays aren't high enough because the same mistake has been made and the additional height of battens and, where applicable, counter battens along with the roof coverings not been taken into account.
I’d not be at all surprised if there are no lead flashings at all at the abutment under these protruding bricks.

Another weakness with the idea of these ‘sticking out’ bricks is that they provide a nice flat platform for wind driven rain to soak into the stack which will cause dampness and the attendant danger to timbers adjacent to the chimney. As the timber is dry at the moment it could well be that the fillet of mortar that’s been smeared on the bricks is helping to restrict rainwater getting in.

The solution, as I see it, is unfortunately to remove these protruding bricks, introduce soakers under each tile and then fix stepped flashings, as usual, to the chimney. A more dramatic solution would be to take down the chimney taking the opportunity to introduce damp courses and rebuild with the corbelled bricks at a high enough level so that flashings can be fixed comfortably below them.

Sounds expensive though but the only way I think…

Doug

 

[Lime]

Yes, it looks to me that the builder (or re-builder) of the stack did not get it right.
Rather than remove or cut off the bricks I'd fill the descending outline of those bricks with cement so they have a continuous slope from top to bottom and use lead flashing over it.
I'd also use lead over the protruding brick/corbel too.

Then you can forget about removing the paint and also still keep the corbel around the stack.

 

[DJH]

Yes, that's an alternative but two things would need to happen... the first being that the tiles would have to be removed and reconfigured so that soakers can be fitted against the new abutment and secondly that the lead flashing must be taken up to the joints above the corbelled bricks to remove the possibility of rainwater ingress through the horizontal flat area of the bricks and on into the chimney if those joints are used to fix the lead in. If the joints are wide enough it might be possible to have an upturn on the lead as it tucks into the joint but this is not always a fail safe method for various reasons.

A competent leadworker with welding and fabrication skills in excess of your average roofer will be needed...

Doug

 

[paulb33]

A competent leadworker with welding and fabrication skills in excess of your average roofer will be needed...

Doug

You guys are scaring me now… :shock:

 

[Lime]

A competent leadworker with welding and fabrication skills in excess of your average roofer will be needed...

Doug

You guys are scaring me now… :shock:

It is often surprising just how much more the average roof worker knows about lead work when they realise YOU know all about it too.
Far too many people trust "professionals" to do a good job and don't get it because they themselves know no nothing about the work involved and what options there are.
Unfortunately IME most lead roof workers will do as little as they can get away with.
Get to know what is needed to be done.
Below are a couple of links that may be of help.

Calder-Guide-to-Good-Leadwork:-
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CD4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calderlead.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2FCalder-Guide-to-Good-Leadwork.pdf&ei=3cenUpX9FqTI0AXxqYGYDg&usg=AFQjCNEytFamZJs9xg_ZlYeekHgmGurBRw&bvm=bv.57799294,d.d2k

CALDER-16PP-PROD-BROCHURE:-
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&ved=0CGkQFjAL&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.calderlead.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2FCALDER-16PP-PROD-BROCHURE.pdf&ei=wsanUvfFCOKb0QX58IHIDw&usg=AFQjCNGCAWE-eAT-wNWF65G1VRFFjaDFxQ&bvm=bv.57799294,d.d2k

 

[DJH]

Unfortunately IME most lead roof workers will do as little as they can get away with.

:lol:

 

[garnett]

Hi

I have seen ths stuff in the past. Taking all reasonable precautions, try a hot air striper and aa scrapper. It sould delaminate from the brick easily.

Let us know if this works.

Garnett