Question for thatchers

[Penners]

Thanks Biff. You've hit the nail on the head as regards the fundamental dilemma: is the twine purely an installation aid, after which it becomes redundant, or is it a lifelong necessity? I suppose the question answers itself to a certain extent, because the thatch is not currently lying all over the garden. But my small worry is whether there's a critical point at which X number of broken strings = rapid descent of roof.

I'm going to do as Moo suggests and see whether I can catch a local thatcher on his tea-break, but if your friend should return from foreign parts I would be grateful if you could ask him.

If I get a definitive answer in the meantime, I'll post it.

Many thanks again.

 

[Moo]

David

I THINK I MAY HAVE FOUND THE ANSWER

Or at least, I've found a book in the library called
"Thatch - a manual; for owners, surveyors, architects and builders" by one Robert West, pub. David & Charles, Newton Abbot London.
ISBN 1-55562-044-2

I've not read it yet, but it's title jumped out at me when I was doing a bit of idle browsing just now.
Chapters include :
Identifying Thatch
Maintenance and Repair
Learning the art of thatching
Glossary of Technical Terms
Further Reading.

And it's got lots of illustrations.

 

[Penners]

Wow, Moo. That's so kind of you!

Do I take it that you've borrowed the book and are going to see whether my question is answered in it?

I shall definitely owe you a nice bottle!

 

[Moo]

I have the book beside me (hence all that guff about ISBN numbers), but will have to read through your earlier posts first, to see if I can ferret out something relevant.
If I can't, it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't there. So it might be an idea for you to order it through the inter-library loan scheme.

At the back I've found the following useful addresses -

Thatching Advisory Service Ltd, Rose Tree Farm, 29 Nine Mile Ride, Finchampstead, Berks, RG11 4QD
The Council for Small Industries in Rural Areas, Salisbury, Wilts
The National Society of Master Thatchers, 38 Bradford Road, Toddington, Beds
(I expect that by now they all have their own websites - might be worth doing a bit of googling)

And Further reading -

Thatch and Thatching, by Jacqueline Fearn, Shire Publications (1976)
The Thatcher's Craft, Council for Small Industries in Rural Areas
The Reed, Norfolk Reed Growers' Association
Thatching of Rick and Barn, by EJ Stowe, Landsmans Library (1954)

The book I'm quoting from was republished in 1989, which makes it the most up-to-date, though I guess that where thatching's concerned it's a bit irrelevant.

 

[Penners]

That's brilliant, Moo. Thank you so much. Please don't spend a lot of time on it, but if the answer should leap off the page at you, I'd be very grateful to know what it says. If not, then I'll follow up your suggestions.

Very many thanks again.

 

[skier-hughes]

Googling for an answer didn't help much, but I did find these, maybe worth a call?
http://www.eamta.co.uk/

Graham

 

[Moo]

- and another forum for Penners to join.

 

[Penners]

If I join another forum, the present Mrs Penners will probably elect to become the former Mrs Penners.

 

[Ushy M]

Don't know if I can help on this, but am interested in what Biff had to say because we have a cottage thatched in longstraw rather than reed and the base layer is also tied onto the rafters with tarred straw.

You might find the attached article useful - it explains how in addition to the bundles of thatch being tied on, they may additionally be supported by 'spars' fixing one bundle to the next - this might inform how much long-term support the twine is offering. Very interested to see how you get on with this project.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/longstraw/longstraw.htm

 

[Ushy M]

Doh! 'tarred straw' should of course read 'tarred string'. To think I used to be a proof reader..............

 

[Moo]

One very basic thought:

If you replace the twine, regardless of whether or not it is really necessary, will it do any harm?


ps I've yet to have a thorough dig in the book, hence that bit of guesswork.

 

[Penners]

No, Moo - I hope that it wouldn't. I suppose my only worry was the technique I was planning to use. I was going to tie a new piece of twine to one end of the broken bit, then pull the other broken end, so as to thread the new piece through, until the old was completely withdrawn. Then knot the new piece. My small worry is whether pulling the knot through might damage any of the (probably oldest) layer of reeds.

I'm probably being ludicrously over-cautious, but it's the roof-in-the-garden syndrome that just nags at me.

If you haven't got time to look through the book, please don't worry. I don't want to give you a lot of work.

 

[biffvernon]

You'll be wondering whether you need listed buildings consent for that new use of twine next. :wink:

 

[Penners]

You'll be wondering whether you need listed buildings consent for that new use of twine next. :wink:

Don't even joke about it!

 

[Me!]

I suggest that in order to preserve the maximum amount of original historic fabric, that you leave the old twine in place and splice some new pieces to the old to strengthen them as a 'good honest repair'! :lol:

 

[biffvernon]

Good thinking, but make sure that the new twine is bright pink polypropylene so that future historians can easily distinguish the original material from that used in the repair.

 

[Me!]

Ah, but polypropylene isn't vapour permeable, so may cause trapped moisture and localised deathwatch beetle infestation of the rafters under the twine!

 

[Penners]

I'm very depressed.

 

[biffvernon]

Did you come to a conclusion regarding the broken twine under Miss Penners' thatch?

My thatching friend just returned from his travels, studying the thatching habits of Slovenians and Hungarians, so I popped the question.

T'was as I thought, assuming it's a reed roof, the twine is stitched through such that there's not much else holding the thatch on. When the twine breaks it could, theoretically, all blow away. But, in practice, the thatch often beds itself down so well that it stays quite firm for long after much of the twine has rotted. Furthermore, sometimes a top layer of extra thatch is added without removing the old material. This is normal with straw but is sometimes also done with reed. If this has happened the additional material will have been pinned down with willow or hazel hoops which will be invisibly buried but will hold the roof together. Only careful investigation will reveal whether this has been done.

 

[Penners]

Thanks a million, Biff. I've been trying to spot a thatcher at work in this area so I can stop and ask his advice. However, the problem is finding one at ground level! I don't think I would be popular if I asked him just to pop down the ladder and give me free advice halfway through a complex combing operation.

It's good to have an authoritative view - not quite the answer I was hoping for, though! I think we ought to play it safe and get a thatcher to do a proper inspection.

Many thanks again for your help.