A
Anonymous
Guest
It's also what I understood to be the case!
However - too many still think it makes 'lime mortar'!
However - too many still think it makes 'lime mortar'!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hello Sartori
Fairy liquid is a no no!
It okay for laying patio's (Slabs) etc but not brickwork or rendering
When I render with cement mortar For each mixer full I add one large heaped shovel of hydrated lime and still put febmix in.
At your college
When they mixed the mortar, did you say they add cement as well?
Fairy liquid is a no no!
It okay for laying patio's (Slabs) etc but not brickwork or rendering
When I render with cement mortar For each mixer full I add one large heaped shovel of hydrated lime and still put febmix in.
At your college
When they mixed the mortar, did you say they add cement as well?
A
Anonymous
Guest
*too many still think it makes 'lime mortar'!*
Evelyn. Out of interest
Are you saying that about the bagged hydrated lime
Evelyn. Out of interest
Are you saying that about the bagged hydrated lime
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'm saying I have had builders tell me that they use 'lime mortar' when whet they use is cement and sand with some hydrated lime in it. That's not lime mortar!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Yep! From what I remember that's what they called it..
Any mortar with lime added was called lime mortar
What they should say is
"there's lime in the cement mortar"
But they don't.....
An extract from a readymix site
Products - Ready Mixed Products
Lime : Sand Mortar
Features & Benefits
Lime : Sand Mortar or Readymixed Mortar is washed sand and hydrated lime activated in a special high speed mixing plant. Obviously, cement must be added on site to the correct proportion for.........
It goes on with technical bable
If it's the same stuff I used (when on site years ago)
It was called something like "lamatex" to which we were told the sand (usually coloured) was a mix ratio of 6 sand:1 lime and 1 cement was added when mixing I think there was probably a dry Plasticiser added as well.
And From what i remember that was called lime mortar
So that could be 'one' of many reasons why some builders say 'cement/lime mortar'...
Is called 'lime mortar'.....
Any mortar with lime added was called lime mortar
What they should say is
"there's lime in the cement mortar"
But they don't.....
An extract from a readymix site
Products - Ready Mixed Products
Lime : Sand Mortar
Features & Benefits
Lime : Sand Mortar or Readymixed Mortar is washed sand and hydrated lime activated in a special high speed mixing plant. Obviously, cement must be added on site to the correct proportion for.........
It goes on with technical bable
If it's the same stuff I used (when on site years ago)
It was called something like "lamatex" to which we were told the sand (usually coloured) was a mix ratio of 6 sand:1 lime and 1 cement was added when mixing I think there was probably a dry Plasticiser added as well.
And From what i remember that was called lime mortar
So that could be 'one' of many reasons why some builders say 'cement/lime mortar'...
Is called 'lime mortar'.....
A
Anonymous
Guest
I read recently about how fairy liquid affects mortar, so I have delusions of having a clue.
In short it weakens the final mortar strength - and if youre cementing onto soft brick, thats a good thing. A poor choice, yes, but the fairy itself is good.
NT
In short it weakens the final mortar strength - and if youre cementing onto soft brick, thats a good thing. A poor choice, yes, but the fairy itself is good.
NT
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Anonymous
Guest
AIUI hydraulic sets quickly, so no muckabout permitted. Havent used it myself, so could be wrong.
A
Anonymous
Guest
It does go off quickly (I've used it on a stone ridge and gable copings), you are right, so you can't play around for ages with it as you can with fat lime.
However, that's just the initial set (apparently) and it still strengthens by carbonation over a few days to weeks (so says the supplier). We're getting frosts here in Yorkshire, so I'd be worried about doing any serious outdoor building work (i.e. chimney stack) at the moment - even with hydraulic limes I'd be concerned that a hard frost could cause damage and stop it setting properly. I'll wait until next Spring, and hope the chimney doesn't fall down in the meantime :/
Cheers
Ian
However, that's just the initial set (apparently) and it still strengthens by carbonation over a few days to weeks (so says the supplier). We're getting frosts here in Yorkshire, so I'd be worried about doing any serious outdoor building work (i.e. chimney stack) at the moment - even with hydraulic limes I'd be concerned that a hard frost could cause damage and stop it setting properly. I'll wait until next Spring, and hope the chimney doesn't fall down in the meantime :/
Cheers
Ian
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Anonymous
Guest
Oops - I just replied to myself - a sign of madness!
(See below)
(See below)
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Anonymous
Guest
But it does make your hands nice and soft ....
Doesn't the mixer start frothing?
<IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="
">
Doesn't the mixer start frothing?
<IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="
">
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Anonymous
Guest
How does it go.....
Sing!!
Hand that do dishes can be soft on your cement,
with mild green fairy liquid
Sing!!
Hand that do dishes can be soft on your cement,
with mild green fairy liquid
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Anonymous
Guest
Frothy mixer..!!
You've use it!!...!!
Haven't you!!!???......
;o)
You've use it!!...!!
Haven't you!!!???......
;o)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Heya Jake
Yes they do add cement but I have to stick up for them, at no point did they ever call the result 'lime mortar'. All the bricklaying instructors see working with lime as a voodoo art thats only used on churches and listed buildings, and then only if someone is looking over their shoulder.
I have said this before - if SPAB, EH and other charities really want to change the world the best way forward is to get involved with the organisations churning out the next generation of builders and help define the curriculum.
Steve
Yes they do add cement but I have to stick up for them, at no point did they ever call the result 'lime mortar'. All the bricklaying instructors see working with lime as a voodoo art thats only used on churches and listed buildings, and then only if someone is looking over their shoulder.
I have said this before - if SPAB, EH and other charities really want to change the world the best way forward is to get involved with the organisations churning out the next generation of builders and help define the curriculum.
Steve
A
Anonymous
Guest
You've hit the nail right on the head, Sartori. People who attend the likes of the SPAB courses are the already converted. If only all the bodies (EH, SPAB et al) that bemoan the lack of skilled tradesmen (sorry! tradespeople) would get together and put some pressure on the people who design the curriculum, things might improve.
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Anonymous
Guest
The lectures don't have to say much to the students except Give a talk about the diff between modern and the old traditional methods of construction. what you can and can not do. the debate on rights and wrongs of Cement, Lime, DPM's, Injection etc and other methods of DPC in old buildings
Which route they may fancy going i.e new build or restoration. I for e.g, my pref is restoration.
It's then left up to the student to choose.
They may do a stint (as I did) on new house developement (boring) and after have a go at restoration work and all the other crafts that go with it (if they want)
When I was a student we had none of this. I only came accross renovation work when applied for a position in which the company only touch that type of work
But I would assume (going by what Sartori said) that the drive is for modern methods etc in the classroom in todays college and hardly a mention about restoration etc
Which route they may fancy going i.e new build or restoration. I for e.g, my pref is restoration.
It's then left up to the student to choose.
They may do a stint (as I did) on new house developement (boring) and after have a go at restoration work and all the other crafts that go with it (if they want)
When I was a student we had none of this. I only came accross renovation work when applied for a position in which the company only touch that type of work
But I would assume (going by what Sartori said) that the drive is for modern methods etc in the classroom in todays college and hardly a mention about restoration etc
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hi Jake and Moo, glad to hear I'm not a lone voice <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">
The curriculum at present teaches skills needed to produce modern boxes, thats where the work is as far as the major employers are concerned. (I'm referring to the curriculum for bricklayers, not engineers etc)
The lecturers in my experience are more than open to other inputs as "added value", and in fact last year collected enough cash from fundraisers to subsidise a group of students to go dry stone walling in Tuscany for a week. The problem in FE generally is cash, If EH etc would be willing to sponsor a lime expert to give a day or two with students and/or lecturers then Im sure our college would jump at the chance, if they provided info sheets and videos for educational use they would be accepted with equal enthusiasm however it would be frowned upon to divert funds away from the curriculum as proscribed by government to pay through the nose for them - which I believe is fair enough - democratically speaking.
*Steve steps off soap box and shuts up* <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/wink.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">
">The curriculum at present teaches skills needed to produce modern boxes, thats where the work is as far as the major employers are concerned. (I'm referring to the curriculum for bricklayers, not engineers etc)
The lecturers in my experience are more than open to other inputs as "added value", and in fact last year collected enough cash from fundraisers to subsidise a group of students to go dry stone walling in Tuscany for a week. The problem in FE generally is cash, If EH etc would be willing to sponsor a lime expert to give a day or two with students and/or lecturers then Im sure our college would jump at the chance, if they provided info sheets and videos for educational use they would be accepted with equal enthusiasm however it would be frowned upon to divert funds away from the curriculum as proscribed by government to pay through the nose for them - which I believe is fair enough - democratically speaking.
*Steve steps off soap box and shuts up* <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/wink.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="
">
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Anonymous
Guest
During the early years of 1990, just shortly after finding out how dire the situation was getting in areas of my particular trade, I nearly drove myself into the ground trying to get certain roofing lines of work recognised as specialist trades, requiring expert operatives, with conservation type building skills qualifications.
Eventually, I did manage to get the CITB to actually acknowledge the fact that the more traditional side of roofing was indeed a special case - that was as far as I seemed to be able to get, in the end I gave up exhausted!
But yes, government run/approved construction training schemes do obviously teach with an eye to the more basic, modern approach to things. Due partly to the reality that many of the major suppliers of the industry are required to give their support to so many different new elements and systems – it is the only way certain courses can function apparently.
My argument has always been though, that traditional construction know-how holds the key to the majority of the basic core skills the industry needs. Whether a ‘Chippy’, ‘Bricky’ or ‘Spread’ who works with concrete, plastic or whatever, if there is a grounding in the use of natural materials and tested ways, initially, then it is doubtful that neither newfangled man-made stuff nor modern translation will pose any great problem later.
No matter how often things change shape, texture and formation – look to the ‘core-skills’ first!
Bryan
Eventually, I did manage to get the CITB to actually acknowledge the fact that the more traditional side of roofing was indeed a special case - that was as far as I seemed to be able to get, in the end I gave up exhausted!
But yes, government run/approved construction training schemes do obviously teach with an eye to the more basic, modern approach to things. Due partly to the reality that many of the major suppliers of the industry are required to give their support to so many different new elements and systems – it is the only way certain courses can function apparently.
My argument has always been though, that traditional construction know-how holds the key to the majority of the basic core skills the industry needs. Whether a ‘Chippy’, ‘Bricky’ or ‘Spread’ who works with concrete, plastic or whatever, if there is a grounding in the use of natural materials and tested ways, initially, then it is doubtful that neither newfangled man-made stuff nor modern translation will pose any great problem later.
No matter how often things change shape, texture and formation – look to the ‘core-skills’ first!
Bryan