Poundbury - does it work?

[Penners]

I've lived in Milton Keynes for the past 25 years and there are more new designs of houses here than I have seen anywhere else.

Well, that may be so. But "new" has a different definition from "good".

I've been to MK many times, to visit friends and on business. It was certainly a bold experiment in its day - that being the day when the car was regarded as having a bright, limitless future. And like anywhere, it has its good and bad parts. But for all its space and its wide choice of supermarkets and malls, I feel it lacks a heart.

 

[Penners]

how do you create a heart for upwards of 200,000 in a modern setting

It's a fair question, and I don't know the answer. I suspect that a community with a heart is invariably one that has grown organically over centuries, starting with a few houses, a church and a pub, and slowly expanding concentrically from there.

I can think of one possible exception to this, and that's Leamington Spa, which was Britain's first planned town. It's largely Georgian, and it has a fine main street, The Parade, that represents the heart of the town. It grew up around the Pump Rooms, where people came/come to "take the waters", so I suppose this was the logical lynch-pin around which the town centre was built.

 

[Nemesis]

I thought Whitehaven was - does Leamington Spa pre-date that?

http://www.visitcumbria.com/wc/whaven.htm

Whitehaven is lovely I add - and hopefully too isolated to attract developers wishing to buld high rises... but, it developed over time and I do think it's hard to make an instant 'community'. Although I live in a small place which I can't say is much of a 'community' either.

 

[Penners]

I can't give you an authoritative answer to that. All I know is that, while I was growing up (?) in Leamngton, it was an oft-repeated mantra.

 

[caliwag]

Apologies Alex H...I have been there, as an architectural student and more recently. You just don't hear people saying that they would like a house likethe one they saw in MK. People designing their own places tend to either go concrete and timber box or Romantic Regency or Arts and Crafts...and uninformed versions of inbetweenness (is there such a word?) of course.

I always liked New Ash Green in Kent which was grafted onto a small village (wouldn't happen now because of the Nimbies, which is why many of the proposed Eco towns seem to be on old military camps...which seems rather reasonable if you lay a tram or railway to them).

New Ash Green is a success, or certainly was, because it had an excellent designer in the form of Eric Lyons and presumably not a commitee. I know there have been problems, but not as far as I know architectural, although density is probably an issue...anyone got any stats?

Chelteham is a good example too. 350 families in the 17th century, till a spring was discovered and various attempts at creating a spa were made. 3000 people in 1801.
Massive expansion after royality "took the waters" with attendent followers.
I understand it's the most complete Regency town in UK developing rapidly over the following decades.

Sorry, bit of a digression. Anyone interested in looking for design clues should take a look at "A Pattern Language" by Chris Alexander et al and, of course, "Townscape" by the incredible Gordon Cullen...it's all in those two books in the right hands...and walk round Byker...sorry. 8)

 

[Nemesis]

I suspect Whitehaven pre-dates it as a town, the 'planned' part is an extension of that.

It's lovely though.

 

[Nemesis]

Byker - I know it well. It was fine before you know...

 

[Nemesis]

Anyhow - here's more about the Byker Waaaall (as we Geordies caaaall it):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2007/01/06/byker_redevelopment_feature.shtml

Local architect Mike Drage worked on it too. He also did the first incarnation of Live Theatre. Just thought I'd give him his due.

He wrote about it here:

http://www.c20society.org.uk/docs/publications/20thjournal_9.html

 

[Penners]

Do I remember a folk song about Byker Hill? I think it was in some form of English.

 

[caliwag]

Thanks for those links Nemesis...very interesting, must look out for that journal.

 

[Nemesis]

Byker Hill and Walker shore. And it's a form of English which has proud and ancient origins, unlike some of the strangled plum in mouth anyplace stuff so many speak...

http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/wjmc/bykerhil.shtml

http://www.lhi.org.uk/projects_directory/projects_by_region/north_east/newcastle_upon_tyne/geordie_songbook/index.html

There's an audio link to the song there.

http://www.lhi.org.uk/applications/console/av_console.asp?mediacategory=893&jumpto=audio

Bit posh - we normally call it Waaalker...

http://www.muthergrumble.co.uk/issue03/mg0305.htm

And here it is as ART dahlings...

http://www.northeastmovies.co.uk/films/104/variations-on-byker-hill-and-walker-shore

Anyhow...


The estate replaced many neat Tyneside terraces, in an earlier version of 'Pathfinder'. They were deemed 'slums' in the post T Dan Smith era, the one where knocking down anything with some history was seen as progress. In the process, communities were split etc etc...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/image_galleries/byker_redevelopment_gallery.shtml?8

So when students of architecture, town planning and even conservation are shown the Byker Estate and told it was the new Jerusalem, I bet they miss the history of what had gone before out.

Having said that, yes it was and is a very interesting experiment, and such community involvement is one which Mike Drage continues to use.

One quibble is the use of so much timber, which is newly fashionable again. It gets shabby and people tend to replace it with a motley collection of other things, so the coherence is lost. The Grade II* listing should help in Byker.