Please Help - linseed disatser!

[Ian Bond]

Sounds like a plan to me - just have to eke the tester pot out!! Priming with raw linseed oil first will help make the paint go further. It's a gamble that may pay off - or you'll just end up paying P&P for another tester pot. Unless you're passing the place on holiday - sounds like a worthwhile trip to me, nice enough part of the world.



AFAIK the linseed soap is just cold pressed Raw Linseed Oil and water - at least, that's what is says on the bottle. Not sure if they apply some magic mixing method to it that I am unaware of.

Only 1 way to find out!!!!

 

[skier-hughes]

Just looked at my bottle of soap and that is indeed what it says... so I'll try more linseed oil than water and you try more water than oil :shock:

 

[Ian Bond]

OK.

Even Benjamin Franklin was at it:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288150.html

Hope he used pure cold pressed linseed oil

 

[Ian Bond]

Well, I'll admit when I'm wrong, and I really was wrong on this one.

The linseed soap may have been a cost saving scheme too far.

It's claimed to be just cold pressed linseed oil and water, however my attempt looks like a runny egg yolk, and feels like a watery oil, naturally. I'd post some pictures, but they'd put you off your tea.

Certainly not a clear, gel like, soapy substance that Holkham have somehow magicked up.

And theirs doesn't separate back out into oil and water either, and I've had the bottle for a year.

If I knew the secret, I'd be making it myself. And not eating a large slice of Humble Pie. Served with lashings of cold pressed linseed oil.

Bah!

 

[Penners]

Having just paid nearly £15 for 250 ml of Holkam shellac knotting, I'm inclined to think the magic ingredient is the Viscount's crest on the bottle.

An astute observation, young piper. And don't forget the additional benefit that has been exploited for years by Stella Artois beer, whose tagline is "reassuringly expensive".

If you've paid a fortune for a product, you feel that you've bought the best (whether you have or not).

Cynical? Moi?

 

[Feltwell]

Don't think water is an ingredient and all I can say, as before, is it's a pretty darned good cleaner and I've been happy with it. Though I wouldn't buy it for everyday use :wink:

S'funny - because I bought the soap as well, I've only used it so far for cleaning the paintbrushes after painting with their linseed paint, and I found it to not be that good - washing up liquid worked better! Anyone else had problems?

Also, whilst Holkham's paints are undoubtedly very good (if expensive) they do take forever to dry, which is a problem for some jobs. I've my front door to paint, and don't fancy leaving it open for 48 hours to make sure it's dry for each of the 3 coats! This chap claims to have quicker drying linssed paint, and with an almost infinite colour range:-

http://www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk/

Anyone tried their paint and care to comment?

 

[Ian Bond]

I leave the brushes suspended in raw linseed oil during long breaks from painting.

Washing up liquid works well for cleaning, just as good as linseed soap. I use a bit of turps to help remove stubborn paint though.

I agree about drying times - very tricky where you can't leave doors and windows open for days at a time. Not like in the good old days (when nobody had owt worth nicking) etc

Sash windows can be closed almost completely leaving a small gap. For security I set the sash stop locks to allow ventilation, but prevent the window from being opened more than a few inches.

Doors are tricky - I won't paint the frame and door at the same time, and try not worry too much about a perfect finish on the edges. I'm hoping that if I'm sparing with the paint, and open the door from time to time whilst the paint dries, that it won't stick fast. Otherwise I'll have to leave via the window. If I can get that open.

I've looked at the Original Linseed Paint Co site a few times, and they are similarly priced to Holkham on paint. Turps from them is cheap though.

I haven't tried their paint, so can't comment on drying time, but am tempted to give it a go when I paint my front door.

As far as performance of the linseed paint goes (whatever variety) - I'll let you know in a few years. I hope that they do better than the oil-alkyd (also expensive brand) paint that I used previously. Looks nice for a year, starts to peel of. Not happy, considering the time and trouble I took over it.

 

[arl]

I have vague memories of making soap from oil at school. I think you need to add an alkali for hydrolysis

 

[arl]

not sure if this is the same stuff

http://crafty.dyskolus.com/liquidsoap__cosmetics.html

 

[skier-hughes]

Interesting read thanks.
Think I'll stick to buying it

 

[piper]

Ian (and Biff?), how do you paint sash windows? I'm sure there's an approved standard traditional method - information and diagrams no doubt elsewhere on the web, but it's easier to ask the collective wisdom here )
I will very soon have a newly made Douglas Fir sash window to do in linseed paint. The outside will be painted, the inside left "natural". Would you do the inner faces of the sash box - i.e. the sliding surfaces? Presumably yes to the lower half of the outer sash, which will be outside, and no to the upper section of the inner sash, which will have a spring balance in it anyway. However, for a completely painted window, is it usual to leave some bits unpainted, or is there a best sequence to enable drying and prevent it sticking?

 

[Ian Bond]

Interesting read thanks.
Think I'll stick to buying it

Graham - I couldn't agree more!!!!!

 

[Ian Bond]

There are some good guides on painting sash windows on t'internet - there's good un on the Advice / Articles page of PPUK.

I don't know about spring balances - have only pulleys and weights.

However - Do not paint the sides (hidden edges) of the sash stiles at all (the moving bits with the glass in) - leave them bare timber.

I paint visible bits of the pulley stiles, inside and out: there's possible more visible with cords.

The tricky bits for me to paint are the underside of the lower sash lower rail, and the top of the upper sash upper rail - because I have to leave the window slightly open for a couple of days (see earlier post). It's not been a problem so far, because of got locks fitted that let me do this with the window secure.

Hope this helps

Ian

 

[Ian Bond]

And I can't see any problem with what you are proposing - just painting the lower part of the "pulley stile" - the bit that will be outside.

You have to do something very similar if you paint the window a different colour on the inside.

Are you having the window(s) draught-proofed?

I have my own views on the best way to do this, some of which may be unusual (or wrong) but I'm prepared to share...

 

[piper]

Thanks Ian, that's very useful. Yes I'm sure the window will be draught-proofed, because as I said, it is a newly made one - Douglas Fir, not quite finished yet, but will be next week. I don't know the method of draught-proofing they usually use - I will when I see it. I hope it's a removable strip because the first job will be to prime the wood with nice hot linseed oil (heated in the silver paint-kettle, of course)

 

[biffvernon]

What's the magic ingredient in linseed soap?
As far as I know, it's raw linseed oil and water.
The soap costs £8.50 per litre, the raw linseed £7.50.
Can we mix the soap ourselves, or am I missing something (quite possibly) ?

The basic principle of soap making involves a reaction between a fat and an alkali. I think you will have to stir some woodash into your linseed oil before you get soap.

 

[Ian Bond]

Thanks Biff - they must be keeping some ingredients used in the process off the list, which is fair enough. I think that even if I used wood ash that I wouldn't get a clear gel/soap as good as Holkhams.

You can probably make do with washing-up liquid, but I will admit that the linseed soap is more pleasant to use. For the paint brushes/hands - not the washing up.

Piper - I have just been replacing some draught-proofing that had been done a few years ago. Unfortunately the sashes hadn't been hung very well, so I had to make adjustments to cord lengths, and plane the sashes to fit properly. Removing the staff and parting beads was difficult because:

a) they'd stuffed up the parting groove and staff bead edges with decorators caulk.
b) and nailed the parting beads in.

So I broke some of the bead getting it out.

Also, they had pinned the weather pile into the plastic carriers in the beading.

Anyway, I bought some timber Parting and staff bead which had been fitted with the pile carrier (plastic channel) and a 100M roll of weatherpile strip, and re-did all my windows. Cost about £30 - £40 per window for materials.

(I don't like the plastic parting bead - no use to you anyway, with a natural wood finish on the inside)

However, I did things slightly differently:

1. I did not use decorators caulk or pins for the parting bead - it's a friction fit into the groove, I just planed the edges to fit.
2. I've used brass countersunk screws (no8 x 1.25inch) to fix the vertical Parting Beads to the frame, to make future removal easier (have seen this done at some historic country estates). The top and bottom staff beads are nailed.
3. The weather pile is just slipped into the carriers in the bead, and not pinned or glued. It is held in by either the frame or adjacent bead, and stays put.
4. The firm that did the draught proofing fitted it to the inner sash too, at the meeting rail and underside of the bottom rail. A 3mm deep groove had been routed into the rail to receive the weatherpile carrier. I left the meeting rail draught-proofing in place, but removed the bottom rail strip completely, leaving an empty groove.

I'm sure that not everyone will agree with the 4th item, which is fair enough. But it made painting slightly more difficult (couldn't get the pile out) and I was worried that water could get between the wood and plastic carrier and start rot.

Possibly this is rubbish, but I prefer the empty groove which I can keep well painted, and it may also act as a drip groove. Plus, there's already weatherpile on the staff bead, so that'll do the job of keeping the draughts out at the bottom of the window well enough.

I don't want the draught proofing to cut the ventilation completely, leading to condensation problems, or more importantly CO poisoning. There's no problem with the original (not draught-proofed) windows. I think that it's probably the meeting rails that would benefit most from draught proofing, but they are very slim. I'll have to see what I can do, that doesn't involve removing any timber, and is easily reversible. There's a school of thought that says don't draught proof at all, as it increases the risk of condensation and rot. But there are benefits to be had, so I'm trying to find a sensible balance.

Anyway, future maintenance should be easier, as by removing one Staff bead I can swing the lower sash inward, and get at the parting beads easily. Access to an end of each bead should let me slip the pile out from the carrier, and replace if necessary.

To be honest, I've no problem painting with the pile in place. You can push it out of the way with a wide bladed stripping knife. It's worth painting the cut end grain of the parting bead before you fit it, especially the end that meets the sill.

Hopefully some of this will be of use, and if I've got anything wrong someone will respond.