Please help a luddite

[LadyArowana]

Having in theory “finished”* the house and had our nice comfy sofa delivered for the TV room we are faced with the expected problem of internet signal not happily reaching the TV. I have heard there are “things” which can be plugged into a socket nearer the good bit of the internet signal which then magically makes there be a lot more internet in the places it used to be a bit pathetic. His Lordship is even less technically able with this stuff than I am, so I promised him I would reach out to the wise ones here. Any help would be vey much appreciated, particularly if it is of the “buy one of these they are easy to use and will do what you want” variety.

*whilst delivering the sofa they knocked an antique clock off the wall, so having just collected back the last thing which was damaged in our container shipment we are now starting over with said clock. So we are not finished……

 

[Cubist]

Hi Lady A,

Two alternatives. One is that you can buy a wifi signal booster that simply plugs into the mains in the target room. Simple and readily available from about £25 at Curry's. The alternative is to use an ethernet cable which would have to be run from the router either directly to the tv, if it has such a connection, or to another router/booster, in effect daisy-chaining them, in the room. A more expensive and fiddly job that would need consideration of where the cable may need to be routed through the house. However, the latter approach may be the only option if the buildings construction effectively damps the wifi signal.

 

[Cubist]

Oops, just realised I've betrayed my self proclaimed luddite reputation.

 

[a twig]

Mesh wifi - other than running Ethernet cable everywhere it was our only solution to period stone walls. Google’s one was the most common, we went for Linksys Velop Tri band - been a dream for 5 years across two houses now.

Super easy to install, download their app and it guides you through, then you just place them throughout the house - 3 “nodes” will cover most house sizes

Other non South American river based purveyors are available:

Linksys Velop WHW0303 Tri-Band Whole Home Mesh WiFi 5 System (AC2200) - WiFi Router Extender & Booster up to 6000 sq ft for 60+ Devices - Supports MU-MIMO & Parental Control - 3 Pack, White https://amzn.eu/d/g1qyDmz

Sadly I no longer live in your neck of the woods otherwise I’d offer to drop in and sort it

 

[noj]

Even easier (and cheaper) than mesh is the tp-link or similar powerline adaptors - just plug one into a power socket near the router, connect with the supplied bit of ethernet string and the other near your TV.

Two options for the TV end, either the WiFi version or the ethernet one that requires a second bit of string to plug into the TV. Our's is of a vintage that it has the latter but would require a dongle to do WiFi.

Work straight out of the box.

We've got a WiFi one in the study that handles Anna's work laptop, iPad, iPhone and personal phone too.

Really simple and effective if all plugged in to the same ring, less happy if there are daisy chained extension leads involved!

 

[Feltwell]

Opposite to Noj I'm afraid - I found TP-Link powerline adaptors to be a PITA, they kept forgetting to talk to each other and needed re-syncing. They were on different circuits though. So bad I chucked them out. Went to BT's mesh system and never looked back.

Who is your internet provider LadyA? If it's BT and you've a BT Smarthub router, they do "discs" which you plug in around the house to boost the signal. Very simple. Available at great expense from BT or much cheaper used on Ebay, I bought 4 used ones and have never looked back - great signal everywhere, I even use one to relay to another one out in the garage. You can put one behind your telly and rely on it for a better wireless signal, or even better they have a socket on them to connect a patch lead straight to the telly.

 

[Lacan07]

Even easier (and cheaper) than mesh is the tp-link or similar powerline adaptors - just plug one into a power socket near the router, connect with the supplied bit of ethernet string and the other near your TV.

Two options for the TV end, either the WiFi version or the ethernet one that requires a second bit of string to plug into the TV. Our's is of a vintage that it has the latter but would require a dongle to do WiFi.

Work straight out of the box.

We've got a WiFi one in the study that handles Anna's work laptop, iPad, iPhone and personal phone too.

Really simple and effective if all plugged in to the same ring, less happy if there are daisy chained extension leads involved!

+1 for powerline adapters.

Get Develo, German manufacturer, I've been using them for as long as I can remember and they've never let me down once.

 

[LadyArowana]

Opposite to Noj I'm afraid - I found TP-Link powerline adaptors to be a PITA, they kept forgetting to talk to each other and needed re-syncing. They were on different circuits though. So bad I chucked them out. Went to BT's mesh system and never looked back.

Who is your internet provider LadyA? If it's BT and you've a BT Smarthub router, they do "discs" which you plug in around the house to boost the signal. Very simple. Available at great expense from BT or much cheaper used on Ebay, I bought 4 used ones and have never looked back - great signal everywhere, I even use one to relay to another one out in the garage. You can put one behind your telly and rely on it for a better wireless signal, or even better they have a socket on them to connect a patch lead straight to the telly.

We are with Sky. Our router? is on the ground floor in the dining room ( in a lightweight cupboard ) the TV is one floor down but not directly below as it’s in the room at the back and dining room is at the front of the house. The incoming signal isn’t that great, as you can be right next to the router? in the cupboard and it’s still a bit feeble, we think that’s due to the distance from cabinet outside and wire to our house. The issue reaching the TV is compounded by the placement of a couple of big upright radiators and a steel beam ( holding up the Aga above ).

I wish it was as simple as just opening the cupboard door and “letting a bit more internet out”, my area of responsibility was much more choosing a nice light fitting for the dining room and scouring Ebay for some lovely vintage glass knobs for the cupboard door!

 

[Feltwell]

Sounds like your router could be a bit naff - the "incoming signal" comes down your phone line or sky cable, presuming you've not got fancy fibre to the house. The wifi signal you pick up on your phone or tablet comes from the router, so if you're right next to it you should have a very strong signal.

So you've got a choice - powerline adaptors, which basically take the signal from your router and put it round the power wiring in your house, at the other end a plug-in gizmo turns it back into a wifi signal in another room or you can plug a device like a TV in to the gizmo with a patch lead. Relatively cheap, some folks above have used them with no problem, I found them to be chronically unreliable. I think it depends on the house to be honest.

Or - a mesh system - which as I understand it takes your wifi signal and bounces it on between gizmos that you place round the house. They seem very good to me, the advantage being that the coverage is good so you get a boosted signal for everything. Bit more expensive. Seems to work well, things like phones or tablets just switch from one gizmo to the next as you walk around.

That's my luddite, "totally disinterested in technology so long as it works" knowledge. Anyone, feel free to call out if I've got that wrong!

I've just remembered actually I did end up running a dedicated data cable from my router to my telly, when streaming became a thing - I'd forgotten I'd done that - as even with improved wireless it was still occasionally a problem. I'm "lucky" in that I can crawl under the ground floor rooms and pass cables through.

Personally I'd be inclined to put a mesh system in as twig says above, see how that goes - I've heard good things about the Linksys Velop kit he mentions - if you've still got problems after that then start to look at running a data cable direct from the router to the telly.

 

[RBailey]

Mesh wifi - other than running Ethernet cable everywhere it was our only solution to period stone walls. Google’s one was the most common, we went for Linksys Velop Tri band - been a dream for 5 years across two houses now.

Super easy to install, download their app and it guides you through, then you just place them throughout the house - 3 “nodes” will cover most house sizes

Other non South American river based purveyors are available:

Linksys Velop WHW0303 Tri-Band Whole Home Mesh WiFi 5 System (AC2200) - WiFi Router Extender & Booster up to 6000 sq ft for 60+ Devices - Supports MU-MIMO & Parental Control - 3 Pack, White https://amzn.eu/d/g1qyDmz

Sadly I no longer live in your neck of the woods otherwise I’d offer to drop in and sort it

We've had Velop for probably 5+ years (early addopter) and when it works it's great (and the parental controls and "guest" network are great functions) but when it misbehaves it is panful.

I understand BT do a mesh system and guarantee every room coverage which may be a easier was to go?

Cheers,
Richard B.

 

[CliffordPope]

Another vote for powerline adaptors. Setting them up was very easy - I think I just plugged the the central one in first, then on connecting up the other it automatically looked for its friend, and bingo.
There were warnings in the instructions that it didn't like adaptors - plug straight into the socket - or extension leads. It also said it wouldn't work if they weren't "on the same circuit". I'm not sure what that means - same ring main? or same fuse? Basically it didn't seem to like being routed back through the fuse box. It worked perfectly via the old wire fuses, but not through a trip-switch.

 

[fernicarry]

I have powerline (TP link I think) out to the garage and its pretty much rock solid. Different circuits, different boards even, so its managing to traverse a couple of RCD's along the way plus the dodgy T&E strung overhead. Everything else is hard-wired which I appreciate not everyone will go to the effort of but if you're pulling things apart for any other reason its well worth considering.

The thing about wifi extenders is that they add latency and reduce bandwidth since the same signal has to be repeated multiple times to get to its destination. Maybe not an issue for TV streaming but I wouldn't consider for anything interactive like remote desktop or gaming.

The incoming signal isn’t that great, as you can be right next to the router? in the cupboard and it’s still a bit feeble, we think that’s due to the distance from cabinet outside and wire to our house. The issue reaching the TV is compounded by the placement of a couple of big upright radiators and a steel beam ( holding up the Aga above ).

That a bit more of a worry, the incoming internet signal I mean, not the thought of an Aga balanced on a steel beam, which I'm sure is absolutely fine....

If your internet connection isn't up to the job of streaming in the first place then no amount of repeaters will help. Can you plug a laptop into the router (with cable not over wifi) and go to one of the speed test websites like, err, speedtest.net? Remember the incoming connection speed and the wifi speed are two completely unrelated things. Not helped by ISP's conflating the two in order to up-sell.

 

[a twig]

*engineering rant alert*
Power line is a horrendous, lazy and hacky solution to an easily solved problem.

Shoving data down what are often poorly designed and implemented power circuits is generally to be avoided.

Plus
1) both ends have to be on the same circuit, generally if it’s working across different circuits something weird is going on
2) there is no shielding on T+E so fridges, microwaves, electric car charges etc can trash the connection
3) it generates low frequency interference, which isn’t just an issue for radio hams these days but can also mess up your (and your neighbours) ability to receive AM and in some cases DAB and FM radio or other devices operating in similar spectrums
4) it will limit performance, no point in having that shiny 1Gbps up/down fibre internet package if you are going throttle your internal network using power line.

In short, if you want a wired connection, run an Ethernet cable, otherwise use a mesh or hybrid wifi system.

In the mean time I would also suggest moving your router out from the cupboard and as far away from large chunks of metal as that will help to improve wifi performance

 

[Cubist]

Rant for the Day
I'm just as guilty as anyone else here I suppose, when something goes wrong or doesn't perform to my expectations the first thoughts always focus on the things that may be wrong here and over which I do or can exercise some control. Unlike the other utilities for which any supply issues are abundantly clear, we seldom think of Broadband as a finite resource and nor do we realise that its usage/consumption is firmly controlled - but not by us. That control is exercised autonomously by the providers and just like all the other utility companies their product, is meted out to us via a meter in our homes - in the case of broadband the meter is the router.

These smart little devices that sit alongside our telephone lines and provide us with the ability to 'consume' broadband also police that consumption by controlling, in concert with the providers internal supply/metering systems, the rate of data flow and ultimately the final capacity of 'data' we consume. Ever noticed that when you've been away from home for say a holiday that your broadband service seems sluggish and that little wheel on the screen seems to spin for longer than usual? Ever had to shut down the electricity supply in your home a couple of times or suffered a series of power cuts and seen the same sluggish broadband behaviour? Ever called the providers help desk to complain about slow service after a 'speed test' only to be told theres nothing wrong but that miraculously near normal service resumes shortly afterward? Have you ever wondered how all these different broadband providers can share the same BT infrastructure to supply this product and how BT controls the supply to them? The fact is; our usage is very, very carefully monitored and controlled by external agencies over which we have little or no control.

Maybe we all should think some more about these and other questions, After all, monkey see monkey do. How long before the other little 'smart meters' in our homes begin to more rigorously police our usage of their utility services?

 

[fernicarry]

shiny 1Gbps up/down fibre internet package

the chance would be a fine thing... the planned end state is multimode fibre out to the garage, so I *will* have gigabit, just not to the internet...

Have you ever wondered how all these different broadband providers can share the same BT infrastructure to supply this product and how BT controls the supply to them?

True its all contended and I suppose with OFCOM making the rules stricter about how average speeds can be quoted then ISP's have to employ traffic shaping.

Check out aaisp.net, their motto is to never be the bottleneck, although other hops like OR backhaul could still be the limiting factor. Bit more spendy but if you need internet that works and is supported by people who know what they are talking about rather than call centre box tickers then its worth it.

 

[Cubist]

And another thing... why must we have a new router whenever we switch providers? At the last count we have 5 of these redundant beasties cluttering up the place!

After all, they are all much the same inside, the only difference is the unique identification number embedded in/on a chip. I wonder, and am appalled by the thought, of how many of these darn things must now reside in landfill around the worldl!

 

[LadyArowana]

And another thing... why must we have a new router whenever we switch providers? At the last count we have 5 of these redundant beasties cluttering up the place!

After all, they are all much the same inside, the only difference is the unique identification number embedded in/on a chip. I wonder, and am appalled by the thought, of how many of these darn things must now reside in landfill around the worldl!

I agree, when I did the big cull of redundant equipment before we shipped things to the UK there was an obscene quantity of it. Not just a few routers but endless cables that I had kept “because they might be useful”, numerous telephone handsets, power cords for long dead whatevers. We aren’t even a household that grabs the latest toys either, tend to stick with things until they die of natural causes.

Many thanks to all who have replied to my call for help. I have passed all wisdom to his lordship who is of course mulling the options, I expect a decision some time early 2025!

 

[CliffordPope]

Ever noticed that when you've been away from home for say a holiday that your broadband service seems sluggish and that little wheel on the screen seems to spin for longer than usual?

Ours is slow for a few minutes each time I turn the computer on. I don't think it's "them" - it just takes a while for the valves to warm up.

 

[LadyArowana]

Ours is slow for a few minutes each time I turn the computer on. I don't think it's "them" - it just takes a while for the valves to warm up.

Ooooh valves how fancy, I think we still have damp string. Incidentally this was the wire which everything was coming in via and was somehow working. We wanted to move the termination point ( it was installed on a windowsill ) so the builder and I went out on the scaffolding and "persuaded" it to be broken. The Openreach? chaps had no difficulty saying it was definitely dead and we got a nice new wire and the builder drilled through the thick wall, everyone happy.

 

[a twig]

A lot of the time if you have been away and then come back and turn computers on etc, it is everything phoning home and installing updates etc.

Traffic shaping is definitely a thing but it’s rare that it is employed that aggressively.

Ever since the BT/Phorm scandal and tightened WEEE regs most major ISPs insist that the router remains their property and they provide a paid for postage bag for you to return it when your contract ends.