- Thread starter robgil
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Penners
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Surface-run cabling is one of those things that - once you get a bee in your bonnet about it - you notice all the time. Much more than anyone else does.
But, as Me! suggests, it's not difficult to make it fairly unobtrusive by boxing it in and painting or staining the boxing to match the beam (or whatever other surface it might be attached to).
IMO modern plastic trunking is probably the least sympathetic way of doing it, in an old beamed cottage.
But, as Me! suggests, it's not difficult to make it fairly unobtrusive by boxing it in and painting or staining the boxing to match the beam (or whatever other surface it might be attached to).
IMO modern plastic trunking is probably the least sympathetic way of doing it, in an old beamed cottage.
Feltwell
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I'm pretty sure that Richard Burbidge make wooden trunking - and that's it's sold in the larger B&Q stores. It's the rack in the store where they sell wooden dowelling, small stripwood and other small mouldings. It's softwood but should take a stain with no problem.
If you box in, then your cables need to be within the recognised safety zone AND one of the following:
1) 50mm below the surface
or
2) On an RCD
or
3) Within an earthed metal conduit.
(the above is from memory so may not be correct - check the regs)
You may be able to argue that boxing in is still a surface run and it is still obvious that there are cables hidden behind so the above doesn't apply however, it would have to be really obvious which defeats the objective really.
1) 50mm below the surface
or
2) On an RCD
or
3) Within an earthed metal conduit.
(the above is from memory so may not be correct - check the regs)
You may be able to argue that boxing in is still a surface run and it is still obvious that there are cables hidden behind so the above doesn't apply however, it would have to be really obvious which defeats the objective really.
Penners
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MdB - would those rules apply if you were boxing in existing cable runs?
I'm not suggesting you're wrong - just a genuine question.
I'm not suggesting you're wrong - just a genuine question.
Flyfisher
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One of the advantages of black-painted beams is that any black-painted surface wiring is hardly noticeable.
We also have a lot of horrid grey wires nailed to an unpainted beam near the main consumer unit, far more than 5-deep and almost covering the entire beam for a short distance. I've not yet decided what to do with them but it'll probably involve boxing them in. Fortunately, it's in a top corner of a dark hallway so it's not too noticeable. Possibly why it was done there in the first place.
We also have quite a bit of surface-mounted metal conduit but, strangely perhaps, this doesn't seem to be as noticeable as uncovered wiring.
We also have a lot of horrid grey wires nailed to an unpainted beam near the main consumer unit, far more than 5-deep and almost covering the entire beam for a short distance. I've not yet decided what to do with them but it'll probably involve boxing them in. Fortunately, it's in a top corner of a dark hallway so it's not too noticeable. Possibly why it was done there in the first place.
We also have quite a bit of surface-mounted metal conduit but, strangely perhaps, this doesn't seem to be as noticeable as uncovered wiring.
chuckey
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My cottage had grey PVC twin and earth for the power circuit. The lighting was done with twin core grey PVC and a wopping great green earth wire all very neatly clipped to the wall/beams or any nice period woodwork. The Sparkie also mounted the 4 feet flourescent fitting in the sitting room by boring a 1" diam hole in the centre of a joist, running the hole up at 45 degrees so it exited through the said joist about halfway up its side. Needless to say He chose not to use the joist in the centre of the room, but the next one(????). He also installed a metal cable protector for the one plastered-in cable. This was nailed through the centre of the cable. When I dug it out, the cable had a smoke mark by the nail hole, so he had breached the live/earth insulation.
Back to the subject, I have found in one old house the rubber cables were boxed in with with a specially machined wooden capping strip, lovely bit of stuff!
Frank
Back to the subject, I have found in one old house the rubber cables were boxed in with with a specially machined wooden capping strip, lovely bit of stuff!
Frank
Penners
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Many years ago I was plastering a ceiling. As my work got closer to one corner of the room I started to feel an increasing tingling through the metal of my trowel.
When I investigated by lifting a floorboard in the room above, I found that I had put a nail right through an electric cable that passed through a hole in a joist. The current was travelling through the nail into the wooden joist, then through a plasterboard nail from the joist into my wet plaster.
After that, I was rather more careful about where I ran my cables and how I nailed down my floorboards.
When I investigated by lifting a floorboard in the room above, I found that I had put a nail right through an electric cable that passed through a hole in a joist. The current was travelling through the nail into the wooden joist, then through a plasterboard nail from the joist into my wet plaster.
After that, I was rather more careful about where I ran my cables and how I nailed down my floorboards.
what about this stuff for visible wiring? obviously it would have to be rated correctly but if it is, is there anything stopping people from using it?
http://www.periodlightingshop.com/shop/items.php?Pid=2&Ct1=2&id=86&Cid=&Pid=2
i know it is still surface mount cable but with brass and Bakelite dolly light switches and bakelite plug sockets it might blend in a bit better than flat gray twin and earth.
http://www.periodlightingshop.com/shop/items.php?Pid=2&Ct1=2&id=86&Cid=&Pid=2
i know it is still surface mount cable but with brass and Bakelite dolly light switches and bakelite plug sockets it might blend in a bit better than flat gray twin and earth.
FamilyWiggs
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Doesn't look thick enough in cross section for cable runs - the text suggests it is for recabling single lights.
I wouldn't be using it.
I wouldn't be using it.
LadyArowana
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That looks exactly the same as the stuff that was used on a couple of refurbished vintage light fittings I have. They are wired for one bulb of normal wattage, it doesn't look anything like the thick gauge that the guys used for the sockets and supply to the lighting points.
Nigel Watts
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Funny how one can get the wrong end of the stick. The title of this thread suggested something New Age to me so I didnt open it. Turns out its about wiring.
Personally I find old wiring rather quaint - all those twisted pairs and three pin two amp lighting sockets. Not recommended for elfin safety though.
Personally I find old wiring rather quaint - all those twisted pairs and three pin two amp lighting sockets. Not recommended for elfin safety though.
surely it would be ok to use as a feed from a dolly switch to light fitting or up the wall to where the wiring goes out of view? i was at a friends house a while back and i noticed some of the wiring that had been surface mounted onto beams had a small bore copper tube sheathing it, it was wire feeding some modern wall lamps. it looked quite nice.
Flyfisher
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That cloth-covered twisted cable really only looks OK as a "flex" for portable light fittings.
The "small bore copper tube" wiring sounds like 'pyro' cable, which is often used in fire-critical applications as it's very resistant to heat. I suppose it could be used for visible wiring, providing the ratings were properly taken into account. But in that case, why not just use standard metal conduit?
Whatever you eventually decide upon, I'd recommend talking to someone about certification to verify it is acceptable to the latest regulations before going ahead with any works. I'm doubtful about the acceptability of using that cloth-covered cable for fixed wiring installations, but then I'm not a "competent person" so I'd be wanting to check with the person who will be signing off the installation.
Personally, modern electrical fittings don't particularly bother me, but I appreciate it's a personal preference thing. I do, though, dislike masses of visible grey wiring fixed to beams!
The "small bore copper tube" wiring sounds like 'pyro' cable, which is often used in fire-critical applications as it's very resistant to heat. I suppose it could be used for visible wiring, providing the ratings were properly taken into account. But in that case, why not just use standard metal conduit?
Whatever you eventually decide upon, I'd recommend talking to someone about certification to verify it is acceptable to the latest regulations before going ahead with any works. I'm doubtful about the acceptability of using that cloth-covered cable for fixed wiring installations, but then I'm not a "competent person" so I'd be wanting to check with the person who will be signing off the installation.
Personally, modern electrical fittings don't particularly bother me, but I appreciate it's a personal preference thing. I do, though, dislike masses of visible grey wiring fixed to beams!
I have just had a chat with the people at flexiform and they tell me their cables are .75mm and rated at 6 amps , the amps rating is ok however i believe they need to be 1mm cable in a lighting circuit. there is also the insulating to consider. they do have a braided solid cable rated at 10 amps that is 1mm so that might work.
my lighting circuit from what i can see is distribution blocks and i was hoping to use this cable from the switch to the box , i can hopefully hide the rest but at .75mm it wont meet regs anyway.
i will certainly get a sparkys advice before using any none standard cable , this is what my gray cable looks like , some of this is for the ring main and i can hide a lot of it by re-routing it so its not all bad.
my lighting circuit from what i can see is distribution blocks and i was hoping to use this cable from the switch to the box , i can hopefully hide the rest but at .75mm it wont meet regs anyway.
i will certainly get a sparkys advice before using any none standard cable , this is what my gray cable looks like , some of this is for the ring main and i can hide a lot of it by re-routing it so its not all bad.
It may be possible to get away with this if it on a 3A fuse.robgil said:
The cable appears to be doubly insulated so that is OK. However, my feeling is that stranded flex wire isn't allowed for fixed installation though I could well be wrong on this.
Make sure it is on a RCB before re-routing as hidden cable not on a RCB has to be buried by 50mm or enclosed in metal trunking.robgil said:
Flyfisher
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Is an RCB not a requirement these days, whatever the wiring arrangement?MdB said:
Surely they're a good idea for all sort of reasons?
the ring main is on the rcb side of the consumer unit thankfully , some of my walls are less than 50mm thick. how could i put a fuse into the switch lead?
i have had a read though and nowhere does it say this wire can be put on a lighting circuit , and it is also stranded.
http://www.flexform.co.uk/home.htm
there is quite a lot of people out there selling braided cable but very few list the cables spec. i shall keep searching though.
http://www.inspiredbylight.co.uk/lighting-cable-c-34_165.html?page=1&sort=3a
i have had a read though and nowhere does it say this wire can be put on a lighting circuit , and it is also stranded.
http://www.flexform.co.uk/home.htm
there is quite a lot of people out there selling braided cable but very few list the cables spec. i shall keep searching though.
http://www.inspiredbylight.co.uk/lighting-cable-c-34_165.html?page=1&sort=3a