Pantiles (pictures)

[K8]

Hi
sadly my roof tiles have reached EOL. Although not the actual originals as they had been nailed and were not reusable when the roof was relaid some years back (before me) they are still old and were salvaged from various roofs. Approx age of tiles is 150 years old.
The cottage is in an extremely weathering position and the tiles now shed much debris, clay on regular guttering clear out (there is little to no glaze left on the tiles) and the worst when moved would crumble. I could lay my roof with a heavy duty felt and replace these tiles so they become purely decorative, however the tile condition is not worth going down this route so I need to conisder replacing them.
Image here showing a clip of the existing medly of weathered and attractive (I think so) pantiles.

I have found two suppliers, one is a Dutch tile imported but the finish looks like it might look nice in the Victorian blue.
Sandtoft
Victorian
Victorian braised blue
Has anyone any suggestions for a handmade pantile that has a nice finish please?
In general the ones I have found on the web the colour is just a sort of dull red and machined looking, where as my tiles are quite a strong orange based olour. It could be the clay, these were not made locally (as far as I know) and may have come from France if that helps.

 

[biffvernon]

Well excuse me but the evidence from that photo shows pantiles in better nick than a lot of mine. I wouldn't think of replacing them. New felt and firrings but then put the tiles back. If they are not actually broken then they are still good. There are quite a few lying about in the salvage yards if you need to replace breakages. You might have to pay 60p or more each, or, if you are in the right place at the right time you might find a load for free.

 

[K8]

Salvage yards might be a problem as none available to me locally and/or not with out shipping costs.
The tiles being from different batches do not provide good cover over the roof leaving exposed roofing felt and has left me chasing leaks down. Have fixed two recently. The overlap is very minimal and the site is exposed to upward wind driven spray.
You have given me hope that maybe it might be worth the cost of taking them all down and laying new felt and possibly bitumen (as a weather sealer) and then relaying these tiles purely to retain the decorative look.

 

[andrew gayton]

barco by william blyth; better than s.toft imho

 

[biffvernon]

Is that a local dialect?

 

[andrew gayton]

http://www.williamblyth.co.uk/

:roll:

 

[Penners]

there is little to no glaze left on the tiles

Well, I have to say that I'm with Biff. In the picture, they look pretty good.

On the second-to-bottom row I can see one that looks as though it might be black glazed. Has this given you the impression that they should all be glazed? I don't think this is the case - you can find glazed pantiles, but most aren't.

If they were mine, I would have them stripped off, then re-felt and batten, and have them relaid. Even if they're from mixed batches, a good roofer should be able to sort them and make a decent job of relaying them, without all the cost of replacing them.

 

[Gervase]

Thirded - it looks to me as if only about 10 per cent are chipped or damaged. I'd go with Penners' advice; lift them off, use a breathable felt, rebatten and lay them again. If you do need replacements, ensure that the shape is as close as possible to the originals as there's quite a variation in the ogee curve of pantiles from different sources.
The roof of the first house I owned was just like that, and relaying it was hugely satisfying.

 

[K8]

thank you
re the dark ones, some are black tiles, these are dotted around to give variation.
The 'orange' tiles I don't have any of the old ones with glaze on (if they had it originally I don't know either)
Sounds like I need to patch the areas as and when I need too, mainly round a chimney. The roof is new and sound just perhaps some not ideal work in places....

Wont a breathable membrane leak?

 

[biffvernon]

Salvage yards might be a problem as none available to me locally and/or not with out shipping costs.

Where is local to you? There are a lot available near me.

(Pantiles were not usually glazed.)

 

[Flyfisher]

I also agree with the previous points about the tiles looking OK, but then I'm probably biased because I've almost finished doing precisely as suggested above - remove tiles, breathable felt, re-batten, re-lay original tiles, well most of them anyway.

Gervase is certainly right about the variation in the tiles as I discovered when removing mine. Some previous repairs had obviously been done with only mild regard to precisely matching the originals! It wasn't too difficult finding matching tiles from reclaim yards, but the price variation was quite wide. I ended up paying 94p per tile (inc VAT :evil: ) but I saw other places selling them at 136p. It's impossible to spot the difference between the 'new' tiles and the originals, so I'm very pleased indeed.

I don't know for sure how old the tiles are but the roof is on the C18 part of the house. The worst tiles were on the north face, unsurprisingly I suppose. I ended up buying 375 reclaimed pantiles for a roof of 2550, so that's almost 15%, although I probably won't be need all of them to finish the job.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

A couple of, you might feel, "philosophical" points about using reclaimed tiles.

1. Not all salvage yards are scrupulous in ensuring that their stock has been sourced in an ethically appropriate manner (i.e. "rescued" from an apparently derelict building in the dead of night by a couple of blokes with a van)

2. Failure to support the production of new building materials manufactured in the traditional way will ultimately lead to the loss of the skills required to make them and the triumph of plastic and concrete.

3. New traditional materials will eventually weather appropriately.

I generally suggest that reclaimed materials should not be used.

 

[Nemesis]

And in general, SPAB philosophy.

 

[Penners]

Wont a breathable membrane leak?

No. It's a material specifically designed to allow air through, but not water. Magic!

 

[Flyfisher]

1. Not all salvage yards are scrupulous in ensuring that their stock has been sourced in an ethically appropriate manner (i.e. "rescued" from an apparently derelict building in the dead of night by a couple of blokes with a van)

That may be true, but it's hardly fair to tar all such businesses with the same brush is it? I'm equally sure there are items of stolen property advertised on eBay but is that a reason to boycott it altogether? Besides, isn't this sort of practice the sort of thing that SALVO aims to combat, which is the source through which I found my tiles.

2. Failure to support the production of new building materials manufactured in the traditional way will ultimately lead to the loss of the skills required to make them and the triumph of plastic and concrete.

A bit far-fetched methinks; the implication being that it's better not to recycle perfectly good reclaimed building materials so that people can be employed to make brand new ones. I don't think so.

3. New traditional materials will eventually weather appropriately.

Of course, but that's no reason not to use suitable reclaimed materials where possible and appropriate is it?

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, I know of several pallet-fulls of pantiles that I believe not to be stolen. It seems silly to leave them gathering moss.

 

[Penners]

Yes, I know of several pallet-fulls of pantiles that I believe not to be stolen. It seems silly to leave them gathering moss.

Or to get stolen!

 

[GK]

To relay different types of pantiles, sort them into matching types and make the change on a vertical, so that the pans will all fit (ho ho).

Don't forget they'll need drilling as well, it's usual to nail every third (fifth? can't remember) course and more if you're exposed.

Don't cost your time into the price of the job 'cos when you've finished cleaning the tiles, sorting and drilling them, and trying to make them fit summat like on the roof you'll realise it would have been cheaper to buy new...

Here's a picture of some tatty old tiles (much worse than K8's) relaid on a listed house (note the banding)


[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

and here's a picture of some William Blyth Barcos fitted on a tatty old shed (93 pence plus vat per tile delivered). The tiles that came off are at least as good as the ones I re-laid on the house...anyone bid me 92p each for them?


[Open Image] [Hosted by PhotoGalaxy.com]

 

[biffvernon]

I was just thinking we need a contribution from Geoff

 

[Gareth Hughes]

1. Not all salvage yards are scrupulous in ensuring that their stock has been sourced in an ethically appropriate manner (i.e. "rescued" from an apparently derelict building in the dead of night by a couple of blokes with a van)

That may be true, but it's hardly fair to tar all such businesses with the same brush is it? I'm equally sure there are items of stolen property advertised on eBay but is that a reason to boycott it altogether? Besides, isn't this sort of practice the sort of thing that SALVO aims to combat, which is the source through which I found my tiles.

2. Failure to support the production of new building materials manufactured in the traditional way will ultimately lead to the loss of the skills required to make them and the triumph of plastic and concrete.

A bit far-fetched methinks; the implication being that it's better not to recycle perfectly good reclaimed building materials so that people can be employed to make brand new ones. I don't think so.

3. New traditional materials will eventually weather appropriately.

Of course, but that's no reason not to use suitable reclaimed materials where possible and appropriate is it?

If you are reusing your own tiles on the same roof, fine, but I would suggest that any shortfall should be made up, if possible, from new tiles, not reclaims. I don't thinl that's unreasonable or far-fetched. I can't see that I've tarred al slavage business with the same brush by pointing out that some "salvaged" materials haven't been obtained legally. (Though even where they have, the trade does encourage, to some extent, the demolition of old buildings in order to keep up supply.)