Panel Rails

[kirstickle]

Hey everyone. In our new (20's) house one of the living rooms and one bedroom has panel rails on the walls. They are covered in so much pink paint that it is impossible to tell how old they are. The house looks like it was last decorated in the 80's, and I know these things made a bit of a comeback around that time, so I was wondering what your thoughts are on this? Personally I don't think they look quite right, but my other half thinks they should stay. Bit strange that they only appear in 2 rooms....I'm tempted to get rid....

 

[JoceAndChris]

Sorry kirstickle, I haven't heard that term before. Could you please describe? Chair/Dado rail? Panelling? Plenty of both of those around in the 20s as far as I'm aware.

Pictures please!

I get an understanding of mouldings here with test patches of Nitromors. If there are very few layers of paint (as with bedroom picture rail), I'm pretty certain it was stuck on in the 80s make-over. The 30s mouldings started out being buff coloured and have a fair few layers of paint on top. In time, you build up a picture of what colours were used when. (particularly if, like here, the cheapskate residents used one colour throughout)

Looking at your lovely house again, it's not specifically art deco or art nouveau, and the decorative schemes popular for your style of house had all sorts of influences in the 20s. Here's the delicious Osbert Lancaster on the interior of a house that looks a lot like yours:

"the country-house atmosphere is even more overwhelming within than without. Here the lounge-hall reaches the ultimate peak of its development. From an impressive landing, always referred to as a gallery, a flight of polished oak stairs lead down to a gleaming parquet sea on which float a variety of rich Turkey rugs. Light and air, the former in small quantities, the latter in unlimited supplies, are admitted through a bewildering selection of doors and French windows... On the walls, or rather such part of them as is not covered by a wealth of old oak panelling, hang long lines of sporting prints, punctuated here and there by a barometer or a warming pan..."

Does that have any resemblance to yours?

 

[Penners]

I haven't heard of panel rails, either. Could you mean dado rails (a decorative rail running around the wall at about waist height)?

As Joce says, pictures would be a great help.

 

[Nigel Watts]

1920s houses would almost certainly have had picture rails, which often were aligned with the tops of the door architraves. These wese often removed in the sixties and seventies when they were thought terribly old-fashioned and fuddy-duddy. My father removed quite a few from his 1920s house around the same time that he was ripping out the fireplaces and covering all the panelled doors with hardboard.

 

[Delta]

We have a picture rail in one of our bedrooms, and whilst I didn’t think such things were original to the house, or rather that part of the house c1800, I did find good evidence in another bedroom. My tried and tested method with a 100% (1/1) success rate is to remove the old wallpaper and have a look. Look for colour differences between the divided sections of wall and also badly filled holes, quite large ones that made me think of wooden plugs rather than modern raw plugs. Saying that with my old plaster anything makes a big hole. The tell tale signs of a filled hole is quite a good indicator, I can also trace the lines for the gas lighting, lead pipes run up the walls in places too, just get the light or rather shadow right.

 

[kirstickle]

Hi. Sorry by panel rails I mean kind of like a dado rail but put in the middle of the the walls in a square shape- assume they were meant to 'frame' pictures or something...does this make it clearer?? Thanks x

 

[JoceAndChris]

A bit like this?

Again, I don't think that's an inauthentic treatment! (although the ones in this picture are nasty fake plastic ones)

 

[kirstickle]

Aha yes! Just like that! The ones in the living room are proper rectangles, the ones in the bedroom very similar to that! Actually that pink colour is almost exactly the colour they are painted - nice!!!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Somebody probably had grand illusions!

A picture rail is the most common finding in a 20's /30's, a dado which is generally about 20-30inches from the floor and all around the room is less likely.

 

[JoceAndChris]

From what I've seen of your house, they're absolutely in keeping with the splendid OTT Eygptian-influenced fireplace and the staircase. I really would keep them, and use them to frame sections of appropriate wallpaper, Chinese inspired silk, or simply contrasting colour.

Jealous!

 

[kirstickle]

When the house is restored to it's former glory, the description will be perfect! Until then....

"the smell of wee is even more overwhelming within than without. Here the lounge-hall reaches the ultimate peak of its development. From an impressive landing, always referred to as a gallery, a flight of filthy oak stairs lead down to a rather dirty carpet complete with large hole that looks like it once housed a small bonfire. Light and air, the former in small quantities, the latter in unlimited supplies, are admitted through a bewildering selection of doors and French windows... On the walls, or rather such part of them as is not covered by a wealth floral wallpaper and twee borders, dirty fingerprints are the order of the day, punctuated here and there by unidentifiable stains that one would not wish to know the provenance of..."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oh whoops: I don't think Noel Coward's going to like that at all when he drops in. Never mind, get a ouija board, dim the lights, hold a seance, mix the gin slings very strong - no-one will notice or care. :wink:

 

[JohnB]

My father removed quite a few from his 1920s house around the same time that he was ripping out the fireplaces and covering all the panelled doors with hardboard.

My dad didn't bother with ripping out the fireplaces. A bit of hardboard covered in wallpaper over the hole was enough! He did the door panelling thing though, and removed many of the picture rails. I think there were dado rails as well, but they had gone before I was born I think. This was on a house he had built in 1927!

 

[Penners]

I was wondering what your thoughts are on this? Personally I don't think they look quite right, but my other half thinks they should stay.

Now that we've established what the mouldings are, for what they're worth my thoughts are as follows.

If you think they're original to the house, you may think that they should be conserved. Of course, if the house is listed, then your CO will probably insist on this.

If they're not original and were, as you suspect, added in the 80's, then (if you're not listed) the decision comes down to a simple question: do you like them? It's your house, so only you can decide. You may find that stripping off the thick paint will reveal some decent moulding work, so it would be a good idea to strip a test bit before you finally decide.

If (as you have hinted) there is marital disharmony on this decision, then I shall tactfully withdraw and hope that negotiations can achieve a happy outcome.

 

[Wren]

Our previous house was built in the late 1920s. All of the rooms had picture rails, but no dado rails. (It is a really lovely house and still has the original windows with stained glass in the front door area and top sections of the windows, and also wooden guttering which is traditional in this area.)
The reason I am posting is that I vaguely recall that under some wall paper in the bedroom there was some evidence of the walls in that room having painted on decoration similar to the panel rails you are describing, and it definitely didn't look recent. I think there might have been a floral motif as well (not a million miles away from the picture on the front cover of "The Swedish Room" by Lars Sjoberg).
(Part of the reason we were redecorating is because the house needed rewiring, and behind the previous occupant's wall paper I was surprised to patches of old paint which indicated that the colours I had already carefully chosen for some of the rooms seemed to match what had been originally there, so without me knowing it the room I planned to paint red was originally red, and the room I planned to paint yellow was originally yellow... I think there is something there about responding to and reflecting your environment which means this was more than just a coincidence - those rooms needed to be those colours.)

 

[Nigel Watts]

Most 1920s houses were built in a kind of arts & crafts style, some were neo-classical and rather few were moderne.

If yours is basically arts & crafts inspired I would be surprised if that kind of panelled look were original, but as Penners says whether you keep them or not depends on how you want to decorate the house yourself.

I was brought up in a 1920s house which my grandfather had bought in 1936. My mother still lives there. My father was always very disparaging about the style and did his best to modernise it in the 1960s, removing the stained glass and original fireplaces, covering the panelled doors etc. By the eighties he was at it again, stripping away the 1960s decor which had replaced the 1920s decor and replacing it with something rather more retro, including a very classical mantlepiece for the drawing room which I made for him from mouldings machined to my specification.

I inherited my father's disdain for this style of architecture, but have since changed my mind. Although I still prefer the idea of living in something rather grand and classical I can see the appeal of the arts & crafts style, especially executed by a master like Voysey or Lutyens. Restoring and furnishing such a house in that spirit would be such fun, but clearly not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Penners]

I really like the little break-front detail, Nigel.

 

[kirstickle]

Thanks for the replies. Still undecided about what to do with the panel rails...the living room ones look kind of...wrong...so I am tempted to let these go. The room already has a picture rail, a beautiful ornate cornice, and lovely mouldings in front of the windows, so I think they are just a bit OTT for my taste. Saying that though, that room will be my other half's living space, I am having the one with the monster fireplace, so I guess the final decision will be up to him. Oooh I had a proper read through the survey today, and discovered something in there that I had missed before...apparently there is another inglenook in the kitchen that is hidden behind the rather lovely 80's oak cupboards! I did wonder if the kitchen had once had a fireplace as there is an 'extra' chimney, so that's good news! It will be a while before we can afford to replace the kitchen though so it will have to remain hidden for a little longer. Of course I am already getting carried away thinking about having a lovely open fire in the kitchen, but I have to be a good patient girl and wait a while!! :roll:

 

[Penners]

that room will be my other half's living space

Interesting... Mrs P and I tend to share the house, wandering in and out of all the rooms as the whim takes us. :wink:

 

[kirstickle]

Interesting concept Penners! Seriously though, the only reason we are having a lounge each is because we have a 1 year old who is into everything, and a rather large German Shepherd. He is very good with children, but I am sick of seeing the little one with dog hair hanging out of his mouth! At the moment we are living in an open plan house - not good with a dog and a baby! My lounge will be a no dog zone. :mrgreen: