Paints

[88v8]

I'm painting with MSP at the moment.
The finish is acceptable outdoors, but it's not smooth in the way that oil is smooth, so it will dirty sooner.
I have an excellent ability to ignore dirty paint, so I'm trading that against what I hope may be better durability.

Indoors? If you don't mind a second-rate finish compared to a good oil, I suppose it would be OK. On doors it would be particularly hopeless as it dries so fast one can't cut in. By the time one gets to the overlap, it's already dry.
If one had never worked with an oil paint, one might think MSP is OK, but imho it's a paint for them as don't like painting.

MSP, like other water-base paints, works best with a synthetic brush. (Thanks to a PPFer for that tip). And stop quite frequently to wash out the brush, otherwise it will be a claggy mess by the time you're done.

Ivor

 

[overlander matt]

I've been slapping the MSP on some external wooden cornicing over the weekend. I'm now on my third 2.5L tin... Thumbs up (sore ones) so far.

Back to the inside of the house, I really need to make a decision choosing a suitable white paint for the ceilings. I would favour anything scoring highly in terms of breathability and economy (available in large tins) - anyone have any preferences?

Thank you in advance.

Matt

 

[Feltwell]

Back to the inside of the house, I really need to make a decision choosing a suitable white paint for the ceilings. I would favour anything scoring highly in terms of breathability and economy (available in large tins) - anyone have any preferences?

If it makes the choice easier Matt, breathability doesn't matter for ceilings, modern emulsions are fine. Just avoid Pure Brilliant White - rarely looks right in an old house. I confess I usually just go for Dulux Trade matt emulsion, mixed to a slightly-off white.

 

[TheForge]

Whilst what Feltwell says is broadly true it isn’t quite as simple as too say modern emulsions would be fine in every case. If new lime plaster or plaster repairs are involved I would be wary of emulsions reducing the ability of the plaster to carbonate.

Also if the ceiling contains decorative details (cornices, roses for example) then the reversibility of the paint becomes a consideration, as layers of modern emulsions soon obscure and destroy the details. Soft distemper is a traditional ceiling finish and is more permeable than a modern emulsion with the added bonus of being able to be removed with a sponge and some elbow grease if into detail. Essentially it’s water, gelatine, chalk/China clay and pigment if required.

Most modern whites contain titanium dioxide, which gives the brilliant white look. From the 1870s lithopone was used which creates a subtler colour and there are still a few specialist manufacturers who use this. Historically chalk, China clay or marble dust were also used to create white.

 

[Feltwell]

Whilst what Feltwell says is broadly true it isn’t quite as simple as too say modern emulsions would be fine in every case. If new lime plaster or plaster repairs are involved I would be wary of emulsions reducing the ability of the plaster to carbonate.

Fair points throughout. Ceilings here are of the plain and unrepaired variety in the rooms that have been done, which may not be the case for Matt.

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks for your comments. I just need to find something available in massive tubs! I can fully understand the need for something breathable - in our case we do have cornicing and probably will paint the walls down to a picture rail on newly lime plastered (well, top coat only) walls so probably it's best to go with the traditional...

The problem I face is that previous owners certainly have not worried what has gone on the walls, ceilings and anywhere else. It's all well and good thinking breathability but I do wonder what difference it makes when the lime plastered walls have been painted previously in emulsion. I have had to be a bit pragmatic and had to live with what is on the walls - give it a good scraping, get rid of any gypsum then use a primer to put on a top coat. Where walls have been artexed (only 2 rooms), these will be skimmed with gypsum if they are internal. It would not be feasible to strip it all off and start again unless there are problem signs...

As for emulsion on the cornicing, that really makes me cross. I have been putting off doing anything to these areas but it is a looming requirement to start getting these rooms ready for painting. Anyone have any idea how to treat such areas? I have a specialist coming in to repair cornicing next week but he didn't have many good ideas - 'once it's on it's on' was his view. Great!

So, still on the look out for large tubs of white...

Thanks,

Matt

 

[TheForge]

Matt, you’ll need a poultice to strip emulsion from your cornicing. Peelaway 1 or 7 or Klingstrip being three options. You’ll also need to fully neutralise it prior to repainting in a true soft distemper.

As for other areas of emulsion there is little advantage in using anything but emulsion. If you are concerned for authenticity, tonal variety or colour quality a casein distemper will go over a multitude of sins including emulsion, gypsum etc.

 

[overlander matt]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will order a Peelaway 1 and 7 sample and try it out. I have wondered just how messy it is when used indoors.

As for the paints, I see the F&B 5L casein distemper is around £95 and Rose of Jericho £55. That's quite a difference. How many coats would you typically need to put on for a decent coverage?

Two more weeks of external works to go and then I can get back onto the internal works.

Thanks TheForge.

Matt

 

[TheForge]

Hi Matt,
Normally 2 coats of ROJ casein distemper will cover most surfaces, it’s thicker and more heavily pigmented than F&B distemper so tends to cover better. You’ll get up to about 75m2 per 5 litre tin coverage, dependent on surface and porosity. Soft distemper will go a bit further.

 

[Abi Cott]

From experience the application and stripping process with poltice strippers is quite clean and easy. It's the neutralizing process that you have to watch. That can be rather messy to do effectively.

 

[overlander matt]

I think I have been put off using poultice strippers on the basis of the clean-up required once the paint has been removed. I'm wondering just how messy this really is given the location of the cornice high up around the perimeter of the room. Does one need to cover up the plastered walls below?

Thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[TheForge]

Hi Matt,

A good poultice isn’t messy. It will peel off with care straight into a bin. Neutralising the area that has been treated is the hard bit, but done carefully with sponges there’s no reason for damage or mess.

 

[overlander matt]

That sounds better than I had feared... I'm sure I have heard of stripped timber needing pressure washing to neutralise prior to painting. A sponge sounds a lot more civilised.

Thanks.

Matt

 

[overlander matt]

Five months seem to have passed by since these postings and I have only just received a few tester pots from Rose of Jericho. I'm probably only halfway through the work on the house but I do need to start decorating soon to make it habitable... That means making some decisions on colour which as other recent posts have shown is very difficult - unless of course you go with the magnolia/white combination throughout.

The first problem is the white paint for ceilings. As it will mainly cover gypsum, a casein distemper or emulsion should be fine but I'm struggling with getting the right shade of white. Rose of Jericho suggested their Venetian white was their most popular option but we found it a bit creamy for our liking and would prefer a shade closer to a brilliant white. That seemingly is not the done thing but I really would prefer a cleaner white to a traditional one and better still one that is available in large pots for a sensible price. How are the Earthborn whites for brightness?

Another painting related issue is whether to fit a picture rail in the main reception and bedrooms then paint above the picture rail in the same white as the ceiling. There is also a fairly plain cornice in these rooms that will also be painted white. The ceiling heights are 3m and 2.85m - is there any suggested height for a picture rail?

Thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[Flyfisher]

I know what you mean about some ‘off-whites’ being quite creamy. Have a look at Little Greene ‘Hollyhock’. It’s a soft white that is definitely not creamy and is now our standard ‘white’ paint for ceilings and woodwork.

 

[steveb]

Earthborn white is a proper plain white , but is ultra matt so not shiny if that's what you're after. I have used gallons of it

Very hard to take pictures as cameras and computers lie!

 

[Flyfisher]

Very hard to take pictures as cameras and computers lie!

Yes, and eyes as well, especially when comparing very subtle differences of colours side by side.

 

[overlander matt]

That's good to know thanks. I am trying to keep an eye on the costs of the paint as we're doing the whole house rather than room-by-room. Regarding the 'mattness' of the paints, I was hoping to use a single supplier and paint type to get a consistent finish but this now looks less likely. In some of the rooms there is likely to be a picture rail which will separate a wall colour from the ceiling colour which will cover the top of the wall, cornice and ceiling. Having a similar finish would therefore be ideal but if not then I wonder if it would be all that noticeable?

Thanks again,

Matt

 

[overlander matt]

Oh dear, six months seem to have gone by since I mentioned starting painting to make some rooms habitable... Last week I finally got started and tried some of Rose of Jericho's 'white' casein distemper on a couple of ceilings. I had been worried about the creaminess of other white samples I had looked at and I can report back at last that this one does the trick. I had been keen to find a reasonably priced white distemper - some other manufacturers can be rather expensive if carrying out work on a large scale. Although the colour range is not as extensive as some other suppliers' we've found a few suitable options and I've got a few months of painting ahead now. We will also be trying some F&B and Little Green distemper so will report back on the coverage comparison in due course.

 

[Flyfisher]

Don’t mention painting! I’ve got loads to do, inside and out, and it’s this time of year I start panicking about the weather starting to turn and missing yet another year for outdoor painting. Have I ever mentioned how much I dislike painting?

But I’m not posting just to moan, more to share my experience of F&B and Little Greene paints, which is that LG seems to give far better coverage. I think I’ve previously mentioned problems with F&B distemper requiring three coats and even then not giving uniform coverage. I’ve been told that darker coloured distempered can have this problem. Make of that what you will.