Abi Cott
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Looking pretty good from a distance now it has the furniture on it
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plasticpigeon
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So what is the conclusion? I don't want to use linseed because of the drying times. I have tried dulux ultimate opaque as it is the only satin finish outdoor paint that dulux make. It is absolute shite. You pick up the tin and it feels empty it is so light. There is no body to the paint at all and for me it hasn't lasted a year. it also never really dries properly and can be scraped off with a fingernail which is the worst as it can't even be sanded and re coated. I switched to dulux from Little Green as the longevity of little green wasn't great and a window painted with dulux primer was fine after 3 years so that convinced me. Now I think the primer is fine but the topcoats are poor. Also many paints seem to react badly with putty unless ity is rock hard. Painting after a month with a decent hard skin on the putty still causes wrinkles. My mum seems to have had success with dulux gloss but I really wanted satin. I think I wil go back to little green as I have tins lying around unless anyone knows of a really good satin topcoat that can be got in Brunswick/British racing/ GWR green. Please help.
Abi Cott
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The jotun primer was a nightmare. I'm willing to accept I may have put it on too thick. The topcoat dried well (a bit too well) and for a water based paint was ok to use. If I was working on bare wood I simply wouldn't bother with the primer. If the lack of repainting is effective the extra effort getting a good finish is worth it
88v8
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When last I painted our previous house I used Sikkens AZ Rubbol.
https://www.brewers.co.uk/product/AJ6501205N
and I have used it again here on the garage door frames.
Yes, it's a solvent paint, and it's gloss.
Never found satin paint durable outdoors. That's one reason I was going to try Demidekk, and perhaps I still will, but for the fiddly painting I'm doing now - Critalls in wood frames - I need a longer open time and no drag.
So for the North it will be Sikkens, and for the south it's linseed, which can be painted onto fresh putty, fresh the same day putty, and I have.
But it does take forever to dry. No good if Burglar Bill inhabits your neighbourhood.
Ivor
https://www.brewers.co.uk/product/AJ6501205N
and I have used it again here on the garage door frames.
Yes, it's a solvent paint, and it's gloss.
Never found satin paint durable outdoors. That's one reason I was going to try Demidekk, and perhaps I still will, but for the fiddly painting I'm doing now - Critalls in wood frames - I need a longer open time and no drag.
So for the North it will be Sikkens, and for the south it's linseed, which can be painted onto fresh putty, fresh the same day putty, and I have.
But it does take forever to dry. No good if Burglar Bill inhabits your neighbourhood.
Ivor
88v8
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Moreover, linseed can be applied in full sun, and I did. Jolly useful if one is painting on a south facing.
Yesterday's paint this morning... between tacky and wet. No painting today.
The wettest is where I painted over the linseed previously applied over the Visir primer. The first coat was still draggy.
I suspect it will take weeks to dry.
Oh well.
Ivor
Yesterday's paint this morning... between tacky and wet. No painting today.
The wettest is where I painted over the linseed previously applied over the Visir primer. The first coat was still draggy.
I suspect it will take weeks to dry.
Oh well.
Ivor
Pennyviz
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Out of interest, how would creosote compare in wood protection against gloss for external wood in your opinions? Trouble is with gloss it seems to trap moisture behind easily. (ps this is assuming you have a 'source' for proper creosote). Obviously not for doors tho etc.
Penny
Penny
plasticpigeon
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88v8 said:
Linseed paint in the old days must have dried faster than that. Houses like my terrace were thrown up in the hundred of thouisands at the turn of the century, and care was only taken where it mattered. The paint must have dried in a day. I have an Edwardian decorating book, with lots of paint recipes in, and there is driers in most of them. I don't know what the driers is, as it is called patent driers, but terebine is mentioned for quick drying floor paint. The materials in paint make for scary reading, white lead, all sorts of chromes, vermillion from mercury. Arsenic green is mentioned but not recommended and there is no recipe.
How about adding this to linseed to see what happens?
http://www.blackfriar.co.uk/product/liquid-driers/
plasticpigeon
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Abi Cott said:Looking pretty good from a distance now it has the furniture on it
Looks very nice Abbi!
Feltwell
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I've given up on linseed paint now - the drying times are just too long and the window of opportunity in the year too short to practically use them. I've also had some durability issues on some new timber gates, the linseed finish (this was the Holkhams product) just hasn't lasted.
Following comments on here I'm trying Bedec MSP now - so far I'm impressed, ask me in 10 years about durability! It's water based, goes on easy enough and dries quickly. It's satin that I'm using and, with a decent synthetic brush, I'm getting a surface finish that is good enough for me.
Following comments on here I'm trying Bedec MSP now - so far I'm impressed, ask me in 10 years about durability! It's water based, goes on easy enough and dries quickly. It's satin that I'm using and, with a decent synthetic brush, I'm getting a surface finish that is good enough for me.
TheRoost
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Not heard of Jotun/demidekk before, quick look at the datasheet it sounds a lot like Sadolin superdec , both both being alkyd/acrylic blend in water, and both referred to as being opaque stains.
Like Flyfisher I have used Superdec, only no South facing timber windows here, mainly West facing(rainy north) and it is still looking perfect 3 years on, on what were some well rotted modern pine casements. Superdec satin goes on really easily even on hot days, no separate primer required, think I did 2 coats maybe 3 coats on the bare bits. It seems like oil based but washes out with water. Think I picked this paint based on decorator reviews , and the small window of dry weather that needed quick drying. Would use Sikkens oil based if I wanted the ultimate looks, maybe now the windows are repaired I could top coat with Sikkens if it's a suitable based, as less time required in total.
Like Flyfisher I have used Superdec, only no South facing timber windows here, mainly West facing(rainy north) and it is still looking perfect 3 years on, on what were some well rotted modern pine casements. Superdec satin goes on really easily even on hot days, no separate primer required, think I did 2 coats maybe 3 coats on the bare bits. It seems like oil based but washes out with water. Think I picked this paint based on decorator reviews , and the small window of dry weather that needed quick drying. Would use Sikkens oil based if I wanted the ultimate looks, maybe now the windows are repaired I could top coat with Sikkens if it's a suitable based, as less time required in total.
88v8
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plasticpigeon said:
I asked Blackfriar whether I can use driers with linseed. Their answer was basically, errrm.
So, thankyou for the thought but.... I coul try it, but the long/medium-term effects, hmmm.
Unexpectedly, the paint has all dried now, so another coat today, but not on the shut faces.
That Superdec sounds too good to be true. Time will tell.
As regards creosote, I have a shed that I built in 1977, been creosoted most years except when I couldn't get creosote and then it got done with engine oil. Looks likely to outlive me.
Creosote is superb on bare, sawn, wood. On planed wood it runs off.
One can still get creosote, at the moment. I have several gallons squirelled away.
Ivor
88v8 said:
I once discussed this with Ross, the chap who runs the Linseed Paint Company, and he said that terebine can be used with his paints.
88v8
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Did he now... that's very significant. I'll order some. Thankyou.
Ivor
Ivor
Back to the OP and the ease of use of Jotun Visir/Demidekk...
I was surprised at the earlier comments, having had great success using this combo on my bargeboards and windows a couple of years ago. Last weekend I used it again and wanted to share my experience. Given this paint has one of the longest claimed maintenance cycles on the market (12 years) I'm sure other forum members will be keen to know what it's like given that many of us are in the search of alternatives to linseed oil paint.
In short, I applied it as described on the tin and the application data sheet and it went on a treat. Really easy to use. The Visir primer dried overnight and in less than the 24 hours recommended for 20C. Not sticky at all. The topcoat went on well too.
Can I gently suggest this might be an area where some of us are applying previous experience without 'reading the manual'? As a group we often criticise builders applying modern techniques to older properties (cement in their lime mix, anyone?). In this case, where we choose to eschew traditional materials such as linseed paint and want the benefits of modern solutions we need to get up to speed how they work and how to use them.
Now, I don't know how those of you who have used Visir/Demidekk and found it 'vile' have applied it. But there are clues in some of the descriptions used. For example, '4 days to dry over knotting', 'natural bristle is terrible with Demidekk', 'brush selection is random based on size', etc.
For those who may come across this thread in the future:
- Visir primer is designed to be applied to bare wood only and to impregnate. It must not form a film. It has to soak in. If it sits on the surface (say on previous paint, filler or knotting) then it will stay tacky. You need to wipe it off. I go over it with a wet wipe to do this. It's not like a primer coat that you paint on, think of it like wood preservative that soaks in.
- Natural bristle brushes are for oil, synthetic brushes for water based. For hybrids go synthetic.
- The use of knotting solution externally is not recommended. It's shellac and too brittle, particularly in areas in direct sun. The same applies to BIN as it's shellac based. Best practice is to heat the knots with a heat gun to release resin then wipe with meths, drill out yeh knots and fill, or if this is too much of a PITA then anecdotal evidence suggests Titebond exterior wood glue used for spot sealing the knots works well (as it sticks, seals and flexes).
Just wanted to put forward an alternative experience. I suspect many of us are looking for the holy grail of exterior woodwork painting and, for my money, Visir/Demidekk is the closest I've found.
I was surprised at the earlier comments, having had great success using this combo on my bargeboards and windows a couple of years ago. Last weekend I used it again and wanted to share my experience. Given this paint has one of the longest claimed maintenance cycles on the market (12 years) I'm sure other forum members will be keen to know what it's like given that many of us are in the search of alternatives to linseed oil paint.
In short, I applied it as described on the tin and the application data sheet and it went on a treat. Really easy to use. The Visir primer dried overnight and in less than the 24 hours recommended for 20C. Not sticky at all. The topcoat went on well too.
Can I gently suggest this might be an area where some of us are applying previous experience without 'reading the manual'? As a group we often criticise builders applying modern techniques to older properties (cement in their lime mix, anyone?). In this case, where we choose to eschew traditional materials such as linseed paint and want the benefits of modern solutions we need to get up to speed how they work and how to use them.
Now, I don't know how those of you who have used Visir/Demidekk and found it 'vile' have applied it. But there are clues in some of the descriptions used. For example, '4 days to dry over knotting', 'natural bristle is terrible with Demidekk', 'brush selection is random based on size', etc.
For those who may come across this thread in the future:
- Visir primer is designed to be applied to bare wood only and to impregnate. It must not form a film. It has to soak in. If it sits on the surface (say on previous paint, filler or knotting) then it will stay tacky. You need to wipe it off. I go over it with a wet wipe to do this. It's not like a primer coat that you paint on, think of it like wood preservative that soaks in.
- Natural bristle brushes are for oil, synthetic brushes for water based. For hybrids go synthetic.
- The use of knotting solution externally is not recommended. It's shellac and too brittle, particularly in areas in direct sun. The same applies to BIN as it's shellac based. Best practice is to heat the knots with a heat gun to release resin then wipe with meths, drill out yeh knots and fill, or if this is too much of a PITA then anecdotal evidence suggests Titebond exterior wood glue used for spot sealing the knots works well (as it sticks, seals and flexes).
Just wanted to put forward an alternative experience. I suspect many of us are looking for the holy grail of exterior woodwork painting and, for my money, Visir/Demidekk is the closest I've found.
88v8
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Well, can only speak for myself, but you're right. Have been using it like a traditional paint.
I still have a problem with the rapid drying of the topcoat, especially on fiddly work. It's hard to maintain a wet edge.
Pursuing the thought that Visir must sink in, I presume it would be a bad idea to apply on Accoya?
Ivor
I still have a problem with the rapid drying of the topcoat, especially on fiddly work. It's hard to maintain a wet edge.
Pursuing the thought that Visir must sink in, I presume it would be a bad idea to apply on Accoya?
Ivor
88v8 said:
When I painted my south facing windows with linseed paint, I also did them in full sun during the summer. Now that I'm repainting them with Jotun Demidekk I'm painting them in October, and I've been able to paint in the morning and have the paint dry enough to close the window that evening. I think this is just another aspect of us needing to adjust to modern paint technology by adjusting when in the year we apply it,
88v8
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Repainting... did the linseed not last?
Ivor
Ivor
No. I could put up with the long drying times if it really did last, but in a dark brown colour (it was much darker than in the photo when it was originally put on) and on an exposed south facing wall it just doesn't -
That is a softwood frame where the sill was replaced about 6 years and the rest of the frame is probably 1950's or 1960's. When I replaced the sill, I then pained the whole frame with Sadolin superdec but that only lasted 2 years before it was falling off. The linseed paint in the picture is about 4 years old at most. However, I have a north facing window that I painted with Sadolin superdec at the same time as the front one and that one is still absolutely fine so it is definitely the south facing bit that is my problem.
That is a softwood frame where the sill was replaced about 6 years and the rest of the frame is probably 1950's or 1960's. When I replaced the sill, I then pained the whole frame with Sadolin superdec but that only lasted 2 years before it was falling off. The linseed paint in the picture is about 4 years old at most. However, I have a north facing window that I painted with Sadolin superdec at the same time as the front one and that one is still absolutely fine so it is definitely the south facing bit that is my problem.
To give the full story though I must be fair and say that I do have one hardwood frame on the same south facing wall and the linseed paint on that has lasted longer at about 6 or 7 years before needing repainting. But that window is the attic room and the frame is partially sheltered by the overhang of the gable end so I don't know if it is the different wood or the slight additional shelter that has made that paint last longer.