painting different walls

[piper]

Apologies - I know this has been discussed before, but doing a search didn't quite find what I want.
Our extension has now reached the painting stage, and there are also rooms involved in the works which are in the old part of the house.
For the old rooms, there is a mixture of lime plaster, old and new, and patches of gypsum of very varied ages. The walls are really quite a messy hodge-podge, and quite uneven. Opinions expressed here before seem to suggest Earth-Born clay paints as very good for covering everything - do people still agree? Are there any other favoured options I've not thought of?

For the new room, we have the old house wall and the chimney-breast done in lime, with quite a gritty finish. The other walls and the ceiling are insulated plasterboard (walls on blockwork), skimmed with Bonding - no need to breathe, and the finish is a very good match for the lime. Everything will be white. We are thinking of cheap Trade Emulsion for the Bonding, but not sure about the lime walls.
Questions:-
Is Trade emulsion OK? Even for use on lime if cost is an issue? I believe it is quite breathable - it has to be if it claims to be suitable for undried plaster.
If we go for limewash on the lime walls- please remind me what I have to add to stop it being dusty and brushing off.
This website
http://www.limeearthpaints.com/index.htm
is for a company who adds acrylic to stabilise limewash - nice colours too. Anybody know them, and any comments?

Alternatively - we may go for clay paint on the lot OR just clay on the lime. Is the Trade Emulsion still a good idea to seal and prime the new plaster first, before using the more expensive clay-paint on top of it if we want a more interesting texture and/or colour? My feeling is that this is not worth-while unless we also go for an attractive earthy colour instead of white. Matching different whites could be a problem though - emulsion and limewash are probably very different, though I'm not sure it matters here - I think I could live with different whites on different walls.

The cheap-and-cheerful option I guess is Trade Emulsion on everything, though someone may now tell me it will harm the planet or make profits for an evil capitalist.

 

[shelli]

Hi Piper

I think I read somewhere that the "bad for the planet" issue with chemical paints is the aluminium oxide (?) used to produce them - this apparently is responsible for a big hole in the middle of Madagascar - could have been Biff that mentioned this

Edit - forgot to say that I would go down the cheap emulsion route initially - until you decide on which clay or other paint is best colour for you - live with it nude for a while - white makes a better canvas than plaster or limewash for coloured paint IMO (I have experimental patches all over walls at moment!)

 

[Penners]

Well I ain't no expert, but I'd be highly suspicious of adding acrylic to limewash. I'm sure it stops it dusting, but I suspect it'll stop it breathing too. That's fine on your plasterboard, but on your lime plaster it would rather negate the benefits, I should have thought.

Ditto a modern emulsion paint on the lime plaster - trade or otherwise.

I hope someone more expert than me will respond, but I think I'd avoid both of those risks.

live with it nude for a while

Fine in the summer, but wouldn't you get cold as winter starts to approach?

(Feel free to invite me round for tea, though).

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Opinions expressed here before seem to suggest Earth-Born clay paints as very good for covering everything - do people still agree? Are there any other favoured options I've not thought of?

We have just clay-painted the entire downstairs with Earthborn paints. They really are lovely to work with - nice coverage, no smell, and the finish looks really good on the lime plaster - really subtle, and good environmentally too. I would recommend them, although they are a bit pricier than your average "trade emulsion".

Of course your average trade emulsion is a bit like raping the planet, and then putting poison all over your walls. I'm sure it'll lower your sperm count in the long run (especially if you are a woman), or fill your lungs and brain with toxic gunk.

More seriously, I won't be using "normal" emulsion again. You just don't know exactly what is in it or what the long term environmental/health impact may be. Next job is to repaint all of the emulsion that was already in the house - and we'll be using claypaint or something similar - not for its breathability (pointless on top of emulsion I guess), but because of its finish and environmental credentials.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Try Rose of Jericho paints. They are excellent and are most helpful with technical advice.
I have always found their products perform well, and they have a lovely range of colours.

Francesca's chalky emulsions are also excellent.

Sorry I do not have the website addresses, my design diary is in storage, but google will find them for you.

 

[piper]

HI Shelli, thanks for the reply (and Penners).
Just seen the Wiggs reply too. Hmm. I've already bought a big tin, but it was only about ten pounds. The rest of the house is covered with emulsion, and our previous flats were too, on top of a lot of pollyfilla (yes, the emulsion was Magnolia, AND we had bookshelves made from planks and bricks, with plants on - and we wore flares as well)
I'm steadily being converted to the Earthborn Clay.
Shelli, I think it's actually Titanium Oxide that comes from the hole in Madagascar, and of course it was Biff who told us. I think the problem is that it's virtually the only way to get a white pigment without using lead. I think that's why even the most eco-friendly paint companies say "most of" or "almost all" or "as far as possible" all their ingredients come from sustainable sources.
The trouble is, we want the new room white. The rest of the house is so dark, so we want to make the most of all the light.

I'll certainly avoid emulsion on the lime, though Earthborn's emulsion looks good, and appears to be completely compatible with lime. Bog-standard Trade is certainly cheap though, and someone - was it Andrew Bodenham? - said he would use it because he thought it was quite breathable enough. You have to make sure it's the matt variety, though, because the other sort is a wipeable vinyl finish NOT recommended for plaster which hasn't fully dried out.
Penners, a leaflet/colour chart I have from Lime-Earth Paints has a lot about the necessity for buildings to breathe, and says "Acrylic, accepted in conservation as an artificial ingredient has been added to replace traditional tallow or casein as a binder requiring no fungicides."
People on this site have recommended binders to add to limewash - was it linseed oil or even milk? - any expert out there?

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Well, caesin comes from milk if I remember school science correctly...

 

[FamilyWiggs]

And it's titanium dioxide that is the white pigment in paint, plastics, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide

As well as the hole in Madagascar, I think they may have discovered it under the tarmac on my drive to work... :roll:

 

[DaveBrigg]

We have Earthborn clay paint in most of our rooms. It looks great; a deep colour, although on bare plaster a couple of coats were needed. The only problems we have had are in a couple of places where there is damp. It has bubbled and flaked off a little, and although easy enough to brush off and paint over, in a couple of months it happens again. We have also lost small patches of the fine finish skim coat in the same area. The damp has produced salts however, so it could be this which has caused the failure, rather than the moisture itself.
It was my understanding that if the walls are breathable, and the paint is breathable, the worst symptoms of damp should just be a patch of a darker colour. This is the only paint we have used on the walls though, so I have nothing with which to compare.
P.S. It does cover over a range of different surfaces well though, and is thick enough to disguise minor cracks.

 

[Nigel Watts]

There is an alternative to Titanium oxide other than lead oxide. Whiting, made of powdered chalk, is a wonderful white pigment. Unforuntately it doesnt seem to like being kept in a ready mixed state, nor does it seem to work in oil based paints.

It is traditionally used in distempers, of which there are a number of different recipes which can be made at home, with a bit of trial and error. The simplest involves soaking the whiting overnight in some water than adding some warm size made of rabbit skin glue. Other pigments can be added to the mixture for non-whites. I make my own simple distempers for cornices and ceilings. For walls, which may require a more robust finish, caesin or oil bound distempers are better. I have not tried making these but have no reason to believe they would be any more difficult.

You can buy distempers in ready made form, but if you are worried about the environmental impact you should check what pigments they contain as there is no guarantee that they will be made of whiting rather than Titanium Oxide.

 

[Penners]

it's actually Titanium Oxide

The white pigment for modern paints is actually titanium dioxide, I think. Not that I'm pedantic or anything.

 

[Cloudscape]

See also this topic: http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7742&p=83728

 

[piper]

Many thanks for all those useful replies - and for the link, Cloudscape. I knew there was a thread on it somewhere!
I think it's definitely clay for us. There's no problem buying it here, two shops in Kendal have a good range in stock.
I see johndison - from Earthborn said "Provided that the subtarte is grease and dust free, earthBorn Claypaint should adhere to and cover well just about any substrate". Our new lime wall is quite gritty and sandy, so I'll try one of the clay paint trial pots and see how it works. I think it probably has to be Off White too. I was just driving through the Lake District today, going to Honister, and I'm definitely going off all the brilliant white painted houses. The gentler white of limewash is much nicer.
Has anybody tried Earthborn's emulsion, as opposed to the standard Clay Paint? They say "for those who prefer the properties of a classic emulsion". According to Earthborn's blurb, the difference seems to be that the emulsion is wipeable.

 

[DaveBrigg]

As well as the hole in Madagascar, I think they may have discovered it under the tarmac on my drive to work... :roll:

There is quite a large hole in Lincolnshire too, where Singleton Birch quarry their lime. Even 'traditional' building methods have their impact (he says, with a tonne pallet of the stuff sitting on his driveway at the moment)

 

[FamilyWiggs]

tonne pallet of the stuff sitting on his driveway at the moment

Are you sure it is a tonne? Or a ton? Or even, possibly a tun?

 

[biffvernon]

There is quite a large hole in Lincolnshire too, where Singleton Birch quarry their lime. Even 'traditional' building methods have their impact [/attachment]

It certainly is a big hole. When I visited it on a SPAB day out, we had a minibus to take us round. But look closely at the picture. The large dark green field lower centre was the earlier quarry site and is now farmland again, indistinguishable other than being several metres lower. The rough looking dark field upper centre is soon to be reinstated in a similar way. The picture shows bumpy ground with weeds growing on it. Some of the bumps are waste material from the gypsum and TiO2 industries located on the nearby Humber Bank. This quarry is being used to clear up other folks' mess!

Whiting is a common ingredient in paint but it's not quite such an opaque pigment, especially in oil, as TiO2. Good for distemper though.

 

[biffvernon]

o

 

[Penners]

As well as the hole in Madagascar, I think they may have discovered it under the tarmac on my drive to work... :roll:

There is quite a large hole in Lincolnshire too

Well I'm afraid Blackburn, Lancashire leaves you all standing.

 

[DaveBrigg]

tonne pallet of the stuff sitting on his driveway at the moment

Are you sure it is a tonne? Or a ton? Or even, possibly a tun?

I hope it's a tonne - there are 40 bags at 25kg each, and it took two of us to get the hydraulic trolley up the driveway. It's supposed to be going on the walls this week, but the renderer has a sore arm

Well I'm afraid Blackburn, Lancashire leaves you all standing.

Four thousand I believe, though they are rather small...

 

[Flyfisher]

Enough to fill the Albert Hall though . . .