Penners
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A fair observation. And I'm very impressed that your budget sander had withstood 18 months of daily use.
- Thread starter AMc
- Start date
There is no doubt that cheaper ( reproduction tool design ??) is intended for the DIY market and not for the rigorous use of daily "production" use. As you chaps have suggested, the cheaper version will not stand the strain and will give up the ghost much earlier.
In carefull and skilled hands it will give a good service.
Middi
In carefull and skilled hands it will give a good service.
Middi
Andrew Bodenham
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AMc,
Your hire shop is ripping you off if they want £60 for a belt sander. HSS only want £40 for a week long hire; my local hire shop would be about 2/3 of that. So maybe hiring would be the best option after all.
For floors I'd recommend a 4" wide sander, rather than the more common 3" models. Quicker, and more likely to leave a flat surface. It all depends on budget of course, but I've never regretted spending a bit more for a well made power tool. My Makita one goes on and on, relentlessly. I'd draw the line at the Festool belt sander though, at £450 it's one for the tool fetishists.
Whatever you use it's worth connecting it to a seperate dust extractor / vacuum cleaner as this will collect much more of the dust than the (often hopeless) collection bag fitted to the machine.
I've got to re-finish our stairs soon, and I'm not looking forward to it. All those fiddly corners and edges and mouldings, all covered in old brown-goo varnish. Almost tempted just to paint over the whole lot, but then it's the best bit of joinery in the house and really should be put on show.
Your hire shop is ripping you off if they want £60 for a belt sander. HSS only want £40 for a week long hire; my local hire shop would be about 2/3 of that. So maybe hiring would be the best option after all.
For floors I'd recommend a 4" wide sander, rather than the more common 3" models. Quicker, and more likely to leave a flat surface. It all depends on budget of course, but I've never regretted spending a bit more for a well made power tool. My Makita one goes on and on, relentlessly. I'd draw the line at the Festool belt sander though, at £450 it's one for the tool fetishists.
Whatever you use it's worth connecting it to a seperate dust extractor / vacuum cleaner as this will collect much more of the dust than the (often hopeless) collection bag fitted to the machine.
I've got to re-finish our stairs soon, and I'm not looking forward to it. All those fiddly corners and edges and mouldings, all covered in old brown-goo varnish. Almost tempted just to paint over the whole lot, but then it's the best bit of joinery in the house and really should be put on show.
To be fair I only did a couple of online searches and those prices are a bit higher than you often get charged in person.Andrew Bodenham said:
http://www.hss.com/g/5131/Belt-Sander-110v.html shows £40.70 ex VAT + I'd need a transformer.
I toured 4-5 hire shops looking for a rotovator in November to discover they either had none at all or had no idea when they'd have them back in stock and in the end gave up so I'm not really a fan
I was thinking of the 3" bosch as it should get into the risers on the stairs as well as the treads and the boards upstairs. There's a Black and Decker available that has a smaller front roller and flip up guard for getting right into the edges or sanding spindles but I'm concerned that smaller front roller will make the belts wear faster.
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9287871
Penners
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I've got a brilliant solution to that kind of problem. It's called "a telephone", and it enables you to speak to people in shops without ever leaving your home.AMc said:
Isn't science amazing?
:wink:
Well I in the end I bought the Bosch-PBS-7-Belt-Sander from Argos as I had a £30 gift card from when I returned a Freeview box 35 months into its 36 month extended warranty
I bought belts from Screwfix in 40, 60 and 80 grit having learnt my lesson about sanding floors to 120 grit and making them slippery!
Screwfix did their usual trick of having one pack of each in grade despite my intention to buy several and chuck them as they became caked in bitument and became 'tyres' rather than sanding belts.
I bought a sanding belt cleaning block on chuckey's recommendation.
I also picked up a pair of "Economuff" ear defenders which were very good for £3.
Due to the lack of belts as a departure from my usual "make the tool do the work" approach of going through belts at a pace, I spent a lot of time scraping each board with an old 1" chisel held at 45-90 degrees to flake off the paint and then the bitumen. Wearing masks all day this was quite horrid and not something I would recommend, but it meant the mess was controllable and the actual sanding was achieved very quickly with the limited belts I had available.
As to the tool - it seems well made and was up to the job. It removed quite a lot of wood very quickly using the 40 grit belts and still a fair amount with the 80s.
The dust extraction was very good but the little 'tupperware' box for dust storage in the back is very small. They recommend you empty it every 5 minutes but I was doing it more frequently and still ended up with a fair amount of dust in the air. I think I probably released as much dust each time I'd opened it as the filter mechanism had trapped above a more conventional 'hoover bag' dust extractor. The paper filter ridges also clogged with finer dust and I ended up using the hoover to clean it out very often.
As I'd done all the paint and bitumen removal by hand first, this wasn't as bad as it would have been if I'd been using it to do the removal as well as the finish.
As expected when it did hit patches of bitumen the heat melts it and it welds onto the belt. You can chip small bits off but clearing the belt isn't really possible and once both edges are clogged you have to change the belt regardless.
The belt cleaning block was able to clear the belts of dust but had no real impact on the bitumen. Having encountered this before it really doesn't seem to be avoidable. The only other alternative is to use my orbital sander which has the advantage that it takes sandpaper in single sheets from cheap long rolls, but it generates much more dust and doesn't create as clean a finish unless you go to grits that are too fine for a floor.
There were parts of the staircase that I had to do with the orbital sander and the bits between the spindles were done by hand
Belt changing is quick and easy, just pull the lever out to the side and roll the old belt off and slide in the new one.
I was also very impressed with the self centring - the makita has a screw that you use to centre the belt, if you run the base out of level (to get into the side of a cupped board) then the belt travels and scuffs on the casing. On the Bosch unreasonable amounts of abuse didn't result in the belt moving into the casing or coming loose on the open side.
As with most power tools I would have liked a longer power cord. I would also have liked a proper case - one of the things I remember after the fact is that a blow mould case for the tool makes it much easier to store than a cardboard box.
Here are some pictures that show the progress of the hall from carpet up to the oak stain going down. There really is no other option as the bitumen never comes completely off and most of the other floors were stained dark oak before we bought the house.
I bought belts from Screwfix in 40, 60 and 80 grit having learnt my lesson about sanding floors to 120 grit and making them slippery!
Screwfix did their usual trick of having one pack of each in grade despite my intention to buy several and chuck them as they became caked in bitument and became 'tyres' rather than sanding belts.
I bought a sanding belt cleaning block on chuckey's recommendation.
I also picked up a pair of "Economuff" ear defenders which were very good for £3.
Due to the lack of belts as a departure from my usual "make the tool do the work" approach of going through belts at a pace, I spent a lot of time scraping each board with an old 1" chisel held at 45-90 degrees to flake off the paint and then the bitumen. Wearing masks all day this was quite horrid and not something I would recommend, but it meant the mess was controllable and the actual sanding was achieved very quickly with the limited belts I had available.
As to the tool - it seems well made and was up to the job. It removed quite a lot of wood very quickly using the 40 grit belts and still a fair amount with the 80s.
The dust extraction was very good but the little 'tupperware' box for dust storage in the back is very small. They recommend you empty it every 5 minutes but I was doing it more frequently and still ended up with a fair amount of dust in the air. I think I probably released as much dust each time I'd opened it as the filter mechanism had trapped above a more conventional 'hoover bag' dust extractor. The paper filter ridges also clogged with finer dust and I ended up using the hoover to clean it out very often.
As I'd done all the paint and bitumen removal by hand first, this wasn't as bad as it would have been if I'd been using it to do the removal as well as the finish.
As expected when it did hit patches of bitumen the heat melts it and it welds onto the belt. You can chip small bits off but clearing the belt isn't really possible and once both edges are clogged you have to change the belt regardless.
The belt cleaning block was able to clear the belts of dust but had no real impact on the bitumen. Having encountered this before it really doesn't seem to be avoidable. The only other alternative is to use my orbital sander which has the advantage that it takes sandpaper in single sheets from cheap long rolls, but it generates much more dust and doesn't create as clean a finish unless you go to grits that are too fine for a floor.
There were parts of the staircase that I had to do with the orbital sander and the bits between the spindles were done by hand
Belt changing is quick and easy, just pull the lever out to the side and roll the old belt off and slide in the new one.
I was also very impressed with the self centring - the makita has a screw that you use to centre the belt, if you run the base out of level (to get into the side of a cupped board) then the belt travels and scuffs on the casing. On the Bosch unreasonable amounts of abuse didn't result in the belt moving into the casing or coming loose on the open side.
As with most power tools I would have liked a longer power cord. I would also have liked a proper case - one of the things I remember after the fact is that a blow mould case for the tool makes it much easier to store than a cardboard box.
Here are some pictures that show the progress of the hall from carpet up to the oak stain going down. There really is no other option as the bitumen never comes completely off and most of the other floors were stained dark oak before we bought the house.
Penners
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Yes, I can believe that. In my experience once a sanding belt is clogged with bitumen, nothing will clean it.AMc said:
I presume you bought a rubber cleaning block. When that's worn out, instead of spending money on another try cleaning your belt with a scrunched-up polythene bag. It works (and is free!). Just be careful of your fingers.
Really? Please can you explain a few more details. Do I have to run the belt sander at normal speed but sanding a scrunched-up bag? Doesn't it get caught around the belt and pulled into the machine? Does it have to be real polythene, or can I use a Morrisons type carrier bag?Penners said:
Sorry about all the questions, but I'm intrigued.
Gervase
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Shh! The carrier bag is on the secret list. Whatever you do, don't mention its invaluable role when plastering rounded arrises and staff-beads.
The block has plenty of life left in it, I doubt I'll be replacing it soon if ever.
I'm too cautious with power tools to want to risk my fingers like that - if I chopped one off with the mitre saw they might be able to sew it back on but not if it's smeared all over a sanding belt. I'll leave that particular top tip to the experts but thanks for the suggestion
I'm too cautious with power tools to want to risk my fingers like that - if I chopped one off with the mitre saw they might be able to sew it back on but not if it's smeared all over a sanding belt. I'll leave that particular top tip to the experts but thanks for the suggestion
Penners
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Just run your belt sander at top speed and press the scrunched up poly bag against the belt. As I said above, be careful that you don't sand your fingers - this tends to leave sludgey red stains on the belt. :x Wear work gloves!Me! said:
So long as you keep a firm hold on the bag, it won't get dragged into the works.
I've used any old supermarket poly bag - I don't know whether the compostable ones will work.
OK, Gervase - that's my poly bag tip for the day. How about sharing yours?
Gervase
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Mine's simple - just hold the bag at each end like a drumskin and run it down the arris. You'll get a lovely smooth and rounded profile in seconds, with no need to faff around with shaping trowels.
Penners
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Excellent tip! Many thanks.
Penners
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Life just doesn't get much more exciting, eh?
Toby Newell
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Hi
I appear to be too late! Well done on the work, looks great. In future if anyone is thinking of buying a belt sander dont. Well not a hand held one anyway (I have an 80kg 8" belt sander and it sands very smooth but it costs £4700...) they are totally superseded, for decorative work after the Random powered rotation orbital or Dual Action sander was invented...
Random orbitals are better for a number of reasons
1. Finer finish
2. Sands closer to the edges with less edge damage to adjacent verticals
3. Easier to handle (lighter, easier to hold)
4. Easier to change abrasives (velcro attachement, 10 secs, no alignment problems)
5. Better dust extraction
6. Just as fast material removal
7. Less clogging and melting of paint/bituminous stains and therefore quicker and more efficient removal
8. Can be used for fine sanding and for intercoat sanding (try using a belt sander to sand between coats!)
I have around 10 random orbital sanders at the moment and have tried many from Mafell, Metabo, Makita, Hitachi, Bosch, Festool etc. ALL hand sanders HAVE to be attached to a vacuum, unless you really like cleaning and want to risk lung damage (especially true with oak for example, oak dust is now classified as a substance hazardous to health, there is limited evidence showing cancer causation in mice but either way it's quite acidic and you don't really want acid sludge forming in your lungs) this also has the benefit of reducing abrasive consumption and leaves a finer finish.
A normal random 150mm (6 inch) random orbital (RO) doesnt need to be too expensive but the cheap ones are only useful for finer sanding, P80 grit and above. For the heavy work you will need a forced rotation random orbital 'Dual Action' sander (a gear drives the plate round as well as in an eccentric motion) these are very powerful, on coarse grits they virtually cannot be 'stalled' (stopped by pressing down harder) and can remove just as much material just as fast as a belt sander.(Tip for the mentally deranged: If you want a more aggresive cut and you have access to a hazmat suit you can attach p24 or even P16, 150mm floor sanding zirconia edging velcro discs, they fit right on but don't expect fantastic dust extraction due to the lack of dust holes, hence the hazmat suit)
Sanders are different to other tools and Penners is half right, a £40 drill can drill holes in brick just as well as a £250 SDS drill, not so with sanders though. The motors are under so much more load and varying degrees of axial stress to the bearings a cheap sander will fall apart before your eyes or just slow down so much as to be largely ineffective. I was on a job once and the company I was contracting to got us a whopping £14.99 third sheet orbital sander, I was dismayed at the performance until I pulled the plug out and told my colleague it actually sanded a lot better as a sanding block with the power off... I digress. Here are the sanders I recommend (I own/have owned most of these at one time and have tried all of them)
150mm RO: (Eccentric motion plus free spinning pressure sensitive rotation) Metabo SXE450, Have three of the Mk1 version. Very good, almost as powerful as a forced roatation RO, with P40 grit not much behind the removal rate of a 4" belt sander I managed to melt the bearings on one of them and the factory couldn't free it but then I did sand several thousand square metres sometimes for hours non stop for several years. Very good. I haven't used the latest Mk2 version and I am a little dubious about the 'turbo button' but Metabo stuff is normally very good and it looks like basically the same machine. Ok, so I melted one but I had to try really, really hard, many hours a week for years.
Makita Bo6030. Nice machine, high pitched, really need headphones in an empty room, finer finish and slower stock removal but will get there all the same, my two still work after 7 years and have both sanded several miles of wood each. P240 or higher feels like silk.
The mafell (UT150E) and dewalt sanders that look like the Metabo SXE450 DUO are the same machines made under licence, the only dewalt 150mm RO sander I ever bought (DeWalt DW443) broke down in 2 mins. So I cannot advise getting them. Stick with their mitre saws.
Bosch GEX150AC Not tried but being Bosch professional I expect it will be good. Specs similar to the Makita, sanding aggression probably inbetween the Metabo and the Makita.
150mm POWERED Random Orbital ('Dual Action Sanders'): (Eccentric motion and forced rotation)
MafelUX150. Interesting. More powerful than any 4 inch belt sander, no really, go on, buy one, learn how to control it using P40 then hand it to an unsuspecting person and laugh when they dislocate their wrist trying to hold onto it. Dare I say it? too powerful, had one. It broke, too much for the gears. I sent it back and it came back worse, customer service from the importer a dodgy northern geezer who didnt really have a clue, ended up throwing in the bin so I wouldnt advise getting one.
Makita Bo6040. Nice. Very nice AND very cheap, well the cheapEST. Makita bearings just dont wear out. Had one, was lovely and less than half price of the Festool Rotex and did exactly same job, only problem is dust extraction not so great (actually is quite bad, but if you are mad enough NOT to be using an attached vacuum/dust extractor, it won't matter will it?) so sold it to a mate and bought a...
Bosch GEX150 TURBO Hmmmm, like an original series Festool Rotex but quieter, less vibration, finer sanding in fine mode oh and half the price. In my opinion, after trying dozens of this type of sander over 7 years this is the best, will do all the work of a belt sander and much more. I do like Bosch, the quality of their blue professional range of late is outstanding, they feel like they will last forever. If anyone is going to buy a sander then I advise getting this one. I have sanded many tonnes of wood (very lovingly) into dust and this is one of the best tools out there. If, when you use it for the first time it doesn't make you smile, you must be feeling grumpy.
Festool Rotex 150. OK. I like Festool, I have a dust extractor, plunge saw and jigsaw but sanders? please. Ok, so I have two 8 inch RAS180's which are stupid money but only because no one else makes anything like them and I need them to sand large floors by hand. The only reason to buy a Festool product is that they sometimes make something very clever that does something nothing else does (which they make you pay for!) dont bother with their sanders unless you like spending more money than you need to. Apart from their linear sanders and RAS polishing systems their orbitals and detail sanders do nothing the Bosch, Makita, Metabo, Fein or Hitachi sanders can't do. The Rotex is a lovely sander but the consumables are silly money, the backing pads aren't always so good either. I have used the old and the new Rotex and the Makita and Bosch are just as powerful, the Bosch pips it in my opinion and you can use Bosch Patten discs as well as Festool discs (I dont know how they can charge what they do for their abrasives) very nice sander, but once you know the Bosch exists you can buy a 'Rotex' for half the price. (and spend the difference on a dust extractor and abrasives)
I am currently starting to redesign my website, when it's finished I hope to be installing a BB type feature where ppl can ask questions on everything wood restoration-ish and I shall keep the previous questions and answers. I am hoping I have the correct level of geekiness to do this. I am also working on new guides to French Polishing and Floor Sanding and will put up several detailed projects with step by step photos of floor repairs/doors/architectural items etc. Then if Im not on here for a while ppl can maybe ask me questions on my site and I will do my best to answer them. I will have pics of many Edwardian, Victorian, Georgian and Tudor Floors and Interiors that have been restored. I have been meaning to do this for some time and am finally getting a round tuit.
Oh and Penners are you trying to audition for Jackass UK? They have specially made polurethane rubber blocks for cleaning belts you know! they're not THAT expensive, I mean they're probably cheaper than a packet of frozen peas and a taxi to casualty, unless you live next door to an A & E hospital) brave man, tried them I have but fairly useless on bitumin and applied finish clogging, some success on the larger grits in removing pitch and sawdust. Try a dual action sander! much less clogging as the speed of the abrasive is slower which means less heat generated.
Oh and a final tip, last but definately NOT least. Linibide Tungsten Carbide Scrapers, Stanley now import them. OK the blades are silly money but you can shop around for them.. They do shatter when you hit a nail but nothing scrapes better, I have several hundred blades and every person I show the scraper to gets one. If you havent got enough money for a proper sander, forget the cheap ones, get a 'Super Scraper' as I call them and half a dozen blades, you will clean off that bitumin faster. That's my super tip you can't really strip stair treads and risers without them, try them on door frames, if you don't go 'wow'... you must still be feeling grumpy.
I say leave the dwarves alone, get a proper sander or get the scrapers in.
Hope someone finds this useful. I have many anoraks in my cupboard but this one has more pockets than most.
I appear to be too late! Well done on the work, looks great. In future if anyone is thinking of buying a belt sander dont. Well not a hand held one anyway (I have an 80kg 8" belt sander and it sands very smooth but it costs £4700...) they are totally superseded, for decorative work after the Random powered rotation orbital or Dual Action sander was invented...
Random orbitals are better for a number of reasons
1. Finer finish
2. Sands closer to the edges with less edge damage to adjacent verticals
3. Easier to handle (lighter, easier to hold)
4. Easier to change abrasives (velcro attachement, 10 secs, no alignment problems)
5. Better dust extraction
6. Just as fast material removal
7. Less clogging and melting of paint/bituminous stains and therefore quicker and more efficient removal
8. Can be used for fine sanding and for intercoat sanding (try using a belt sander to sand between coats!)
I have around 10 random orbital sanders at the moment and have tried many from Mafell, Metabo, Makita, Hitachi, Bosch, Festool etc. ALL hand sanders HAVE to be attached to a vacuum, unless you really like cleaning and want to risk lung damage (especially true with oak for example, oak dust is now classified as a substance hazardous to health, there is limited evidence showing cancer causation in mice but either way it's quite acidic and you don't really want acid sludge forming in your lungs) this also has the benefit of reducing abrasive consumption and leaves a finer finish.
A normal random 150mm (6 inch) random orbital (RO) doesnt need to be too expensive but the cheap ones are only useful for finer sanding, P80 grit and above. For the heavy work you will need a forced rotation random orbital 'Dual Action' sander (a gear drives the plate round as well as in an eccentric motion) these are very powerful, on coarse grits they virtually cannot be 'stalled' (stopped by pressing down harder) and can remove just as much material just as fast as a belt sander.(Tip for the mentally deranged: If you want a more aggresive cut and you have access to a hazmat suit you can attach p24 or even P16, 150mm floor sanding zirconia edging velcro discs, they fit right on but don't expect fantastic dust extraction due to the lack of dust holes, hence the hazmat suit)
Sanders are different to other tools and Penners is half right, a £40 drill can drill holes in brick just as well as a £250 SDS drill, not so with sanders though. The motors are under so much more load and varying degrees of axial stress to the bearings a cheap sander will fall apart before your eyes or just slow down so much as to be largely ineffective. I was on a job once and the company I was contracting to got us a whopping £14.99 third sheet orbital sander, I was dismayed at the performance until I pulled the plug out and told my colleague it actually sanded a lot better as a sanding block with the power off... I digress. Here are the sanders I recommend (I own/have owned most of these at one time and have tried all of them)
150mm RO: (Eccentric motion plus free spinning pressure sensitive rotation) Metabo SXE450, Have three of the Mk1 version. Very good, almost as powerful as a forced roatation RO, with P40 grit not much behind the removal rate of a 4" belt sander I managed to melt the bearings on one of them and the factory couldn't free it
but then I did sand several thousand square metres sometimes for hours non stop for several years. Very good. I haven't used the latest Mk2 version and I am a little dubious about the 'turbo button' but Metabo stuff is normally very good and it looks like basically the same machine. Ok, so I melted one but I had to try really, really hard, many hours a week for years.Makita Bo6030. Nice machine, high pitched, really need headphones in an empty room, finer finish and slower stock removal but will get there all the same, my two still work after 7 years and have both sanded several miles of wood each. P240 or higher feels like silk.
The mafell (UT150E) and dewalt sanders that look like the Metabo SXE450 DUO are the same machines made under licence, the only dewalt 150mm RO sander I ever bought (DeWalt DW443) broke down in 2 mins. So I cannot advise getting them. Stick with their mitre saws.
Bosch GEX150AC Not tried but being Bosch professional I expect it will be good. Specs similar to the Makita, sanding aggression probably inbetween the Metabo and the Makita.
150mm POWERED Random Orbital ('Dual Action Sanders'): (Eccentric motion and forced rotation)
MafelUX150. Interesting. More powerful than any 4 inch belt sander, no really, go on, buy one, learn how to control it using P40 then hand it to an unsuspecting person and laugh when they dislocate their wrist trying to hold onto it. Dare I say it? too powerful, had one. It broke, too much for the gears. I sent it back and it came back worse, customer service from the importer a dodgy northern geezer who didnt really have a clue, ended up throwing in the bin so I wouldnt advise getting one.
Makita Bo6040. Nice. Very nice AND very cheap, well the cheapEST. Makita bearings just dont wear out. Had one, was lovely and less than half price of the Festool Rotex and did exactly same job, only problem is dust extraction not so great (actually is quite bad, but if you are mad enough NOT to be using an attached vacuum/dust extractor, it won't matter will it?) so sold it to a mate and bought a...
Bosch GEX150 TURBO Hmmmm, like an original series Festool Rotex but quieter, less vibration, finer sanding in fine mode oh and half the price. In my opinion, after trying dozens of this type of sander over 7 years this is the best, will do all the work of a belt sander and much more. I do like Bosch, the quality of their blue professional range of late is outstanding, they feel like they will last forever. If anyone is going to buy a sander then I advise getting this one. I have sanded many tonnes of wood (very lovingly) into dust and this is one of the best tools out there. If, when you use it for the first time it doesn't make you smile, you must be feeling grumpy.
Festool Rotex 150. OK. I like Festool, I have a dust extractor, plunge saw and jigsaw but sanders? please. Ok, so I have two 8 inch RAS180's which are stupid money but only because no one else makes anything like them and I need them to sand large floors by hand. The only reason to buy a Festool product is that they sometimes make something very clever that does something nothing else does (which they make you pay for!) dont bother with their sanders unless you like spending more money than you need to. Apart from their linear sanders and RAS polishing systems their orbitals and detail sanders do nothing the Bosch, Makita, Metabo, Fein or Hitachi sanders can't do. The Rotex is a lovely sander but the consumables are silly money, the backing pads aren't always so good either. I have used the old and the new Rotex and the Makita and Bosch are just as powerful, the Bosch pips it in my opinion and you can use Bosch Patten discs as well as Festool discs (I dont know how they can charge what they do for their abrasives) very nice sander, but once you know the Bosch exists you can buy a 'Rotex' for half the price. (and spend the difference on a dust extractor and abrasives)
I am currently starting to redesign my website, when it's finished I hope to be installing a BB type feature where ppl can ask questions on everything wood restoration-ish and I shall keep the previous questions and answers. I am hoping I have the correct level of geekiness to do this. I am also working on new guides to French Polishing and Floor Sanding and will put up several detailed projects with step by step photos of floor repairs/doors/architectural items etc. Then if Im not on here for a while ppl can maybe ask me questions on my site and I will do my best to answer them. I will have pics of many Edwardian, Victorian, Georgian and Tudor Floors and Interiors that have been restored. I have been meaning to do this for some time and am finally getting a round tuit.
Oh and Penners are you trying to audition for Jackass UK? They have specially made polurethane rubber blocks for cleaning belts you know! they're not THAT expensive, I mean they're probably cheaper than a packet of frozen peas and a taxi to casualty, unless you live next door to an A & E hospital) brave man, tried them I have but fairly useless on bitumin and applied finish clogging, some success on the larger grits in removing pitch and sawdust. Try a dual action sander! much less clogging as the speed of the abrasive is slower which means less heat generated.
Oh and a final tip, last but definately NOT least. Linibide Tungsten Carbide Scrapers, Stanley now import them. OK the blades are silly money but you can shop around for them.. They do shatter when you hit a nail but nothing scrapes better, I have several hundred blades and every person I show the scraper to gets one. If you havent got enough money for a proper sander, forget the cheap ones, get a 'Super Scraper' as I call them and half a dozen blades, you will clean off that bitumin faster. That's my super tip you can't really strip stair treads and risers without them, try them on door frames, if you don't go 'wow'... you must still be feeling grumpy.
I say leave the dwarves alone, get a proper sander or get the scrapers in.
Hope someone finds this useful. I have many anoraks in my cupboard but this one has more pockets than most.
Toby Newell
Member
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- 1,635
- Location
- Surrey
ps bitumin does come off. all of it. its just unpleasant, involves a lot of sweat, skill and machines. and possibly some swearing.
Toby Newell
Member
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- 1,635
- Location
- Surrey
pps before I get shot down in flames, belt sanders of course maybe useful for roughing work on timber frames doors etc and areas where there is no 'show wood' or the wood surface is not decorative. But for all timbers/wood that is finished for aesthetic reasons they are totally superseded by the Dual Action Sanders.
Feltwell
Member
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- 6,377
- Location
- Shropshire, England
By'eck Toby, do you like Random Orbit sanders then?
Strictly amateur view but I agree completely. I have a cheapo belt sander and have never got on with it, just too aggressive a tool, too easy to make a mistake - OK for taking big amounts of material off but no good if you want a decent finish. I've never been sure if this is due to the nature of the tool or my cack-handedness! After I bought the belt sander I bought a "one up from the cheapest" B&Q own brand random orbit sander and I think it's a great piece of kit, sands quickly, easy to control and gives a good finish. Mine is the non-powered variety and is only used at 60 grit and above, it came with bases for both 5" and 6" discs.
I'm sure it wouldn't stand up to constant "trade" use for that long, but for occasional DIY use it's great, I've had it for about 3 years. Much much better than the 1/3 or 1/2 sheet orbital sanders as well.
Strictly amateur view but I agree completely. I have a cheapo belt sander and have never got on with it, just too aggressive a tool, too easy to make a mistake - OK for taking big amounts of material off but no good if you want a decent finish. I've never been sure if this is due to the nature of the tool or my cack-handedness! After I bought the belt sander I bought a "one up from the cheapest" B&Q own brand random orbit sander and I think it's a great piece of kit, sands quickly, easy to control and gives a good finish. Mine is the non-powered variety and is only used at 60 grit and above, it came with bases for both 5" and 6" discs.
I'm sure it wouldn't stand up to constant "trade" use for that long, but for occasional DIY use it's great, I've had it for about 3 years. Much much better than the 1/3 or 1/2 sheet orbital sanders as well.