Original front door frame loose

[Cassie]

Hi, I’m new here and looking for advice please. I live in a Victorian semi which we’re renovating slowly. It’s on 3 floors, with steps up to a porch on the first floor. The porch adjoins the house only on one side, the other 3 being external walls. The roof is a flat parapet roof with a rubbery coating. The construction is brick. There was a leaking gutter on one corner which I have replaced. The porch was soaking wet to touch inside and the render has clearly been patched numerous times externally. I removed the soggy dry lining and gaffer taped plastic membrane that was attached to untreated wood batons (rotten) on top of a thick, badly applied cement render inside. I could see that the bricks and pointing beneath this were badly deteriorated and I have decided to gently remove the cement, let it all dry out and repoint/replaster with lime. So far, so good. The door was held in place with wooden “bricks” spaced around the frame with what look like iron nails through the frame and into the wooden bricks. There are quite wide gaps around the door between the frame and bricks which was full of thick lime mortar, but a lot of it has fallen out. Needless to say, under the cement the wood has rotted and the frame is no longer secure. In fact a large crack has opened up around the frame externally where it’s moving. We’ve stopped using the door until repaired. My question is what the best way to do this is- with wood bricks mortared in with lime as it was and screw through the frame? They look to be 2 bricks width. Or use actual bricks and somehow drill into them? I’m a bit worried about the vibrations though! And if I remove the rotten wood bricks do I need to use a jack or something to hold up the bricks above?? The wood bricks must have had some sort of structural load bearing function when sound. Any ideas much appreciated, thank you

 

[malcolm]

Could you post photos please. Drag and drop them while you are writing a post or use 'attach files'.

It is not uncommon for modern cement and waterproofing to cause wood to rot and it sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[Cassie]

I’ll give it a whirl! Thanks

 

[Feltwell]

Modern fixings have come on a long, long way. Personally, I would cut wooden packers to fill the gaps back to the brickwork, drill a large hole part way into the lining face, then a smaller hole all the way through, then drill carefully into the brick and fix it all in place with self-cutting masonry bolts - like these:-

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-...teel-concrete-bolts-m10-x-120mm-10-pack/8215p

Screw them in carefully with a socket, making your outer hole big enough for the socket and just deep enough to hide the head, then fill back over prior to decoration. They'll clamp your wooden packer back tightly to the brickwork and never move.

I did that for a door here about 15 years ago and it's never moved. Those bolts are brilliant, you can get them in longer lengths online if need be,. Try and go into roughly the centre of a brick if you can.

Not at all "period" but very effective and hidden! Wooden blocks set into masonry have a habit of shrinking and coming loose, especially with the movement an exterior door gets.

When you're drilling into your brickwork go as gently as you can - if using an SDS drill use it without hammer if you possibly can. Start gently then ramp it up if you really have to. An SDS used aggressively can easily loosen bricks.

 

[Cassie]

That’s interesting, thank you. I’ve not seen those before-so no rawl plugs required?! Would you go into existing bricks or new bricks replacing the rotten wood?

 

[malcolm]

I've been removing the rotten bits of wood from my brick courses and replacing them with bricks. They worked well for hundreds of years but these days someone is always going to concrete render and waterproof paint over them so they'll just rot out again. People love cold wet walls rather than nice dry warm walls the original lime materials intended. Best to screw straight into masonry.

 

[Cassie]

This definitely seems like the answer. It’s looking like I’ll have similar problems around the two windows so that will keep my busy Thank you very much for your help, much appreciated

 

[Feltwell]

That’s interesting, thank you. I’ve not seen those before-so no rawl plugs required?! Would you go into existing bricks or new bricks replacing the rotten wood?

Nope - no rawl plugs required, the thread on them cuts straight into the brick. They put very little expansive force out as well, meaning if you have to you can go nearer to the edge of a brick than you'd think. Plus you can drill straight through whatever you're fixing into the brick, no need to disturb it & move it put a plug in, so great for refixing things that have come a bit loose.

Existing bricks, new bricks, doesn't really matter. so long as they're not too crumbly and are well mortared in. Don't try and fix just into the mortar though, not strong enough. You can take the bolts out and put them back in again with no problems as well.

I use the hex head ones above for fixing cast iron rainwater pipes into place. If you do need a slimmer head for your frames, you can get frame fixing ones with a torx head - easiest to put in with a cordless impact driver I find. Buy one if you've not got one, fantastic bit of kit! These are the screws:-

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easydrive-tx-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-180mm-100-pack/9569h

 

[Cassie]

I think they would work better around the windows-not as much room. I’ll pick up some of both tomorrow and get stuck in We recently bought a cordless impact driver-I agree, really useful bit of kit especially where access is a bit tight!

 

[Feltwell]

I think Toolstation do smaller packs of 10 rather than 100, if memory serves me right. Search "frame screws" or "concrete screws", there are a few different brands

 

[CliffordPope]

"Plus you can drill straight through whatever you're fixing into the brick, no need to disturb it & move it put a plug in, so great for refixing things that have come a bit loose."

I've found you can do that too with Rawlplugs. Just drill the hole for the plug straight through the wood first, then tap the plug through to the masonry using something flat-ended so that you don't open up the plug and jamb it in the hole prematurely. You could use a wood drill for the first bit, but I tend to be lazy and just use a long masonry drill and go straight through both.
It's really useful attaching to our sort of walls where you often have to drill several trial holes first to find somewhere solid - you can run down a batten for example feeling for the stones rather than the gaps and then fixing as you go. It would be impossible if you did it "correctly", keeping track of which were the real holes and which the duds. Also the wood keeps the drill straight so it can't wander off course in the stonework.

 

[Cassie]

That’s interesting Clifford, I didn’t know you could do that! Good tip Could be useful for things like architrave that has come loose. The last thing I want to do is have to remove the frame entirely. It will never go back right and door hanging is not my best skill

 

[Cassie]

This is going to sound stupid, but I came here for advice, so here goes! I’ve got loads of bricks just lying around in the garden-obviously wet but in good condition-any good? Or should I buy new? What sort?? There’s a supplier that does handmade bricks not too far away, but b and q is closer. Facing bricks with holes in don’t seem right. Common brick looks more like it (and will be lime plastered over so colour not a concern) Thanks!

 

[Cubist]

In this and many other posts Clifford is frequently seen to apply the principles of Occams Razor that many others of us would be wise to emulate.

I’ve got loads of bricks just lying around in the garden-obviously wet but in good condition-any good?

If they are, or can be cut to, an appropriate size, there is no reason not to use them. If they are very wet this proves in large that they are breathable and, if they have been lying around wet for some years they have resisted frost damage. Just put them in a dry place until you're ready to use them.

Simples; or, like Occams Razor, reflective of the problem solving principles inherent in KISS.

 

[Cassie]

Sounds good to me Cubist, thank you. I have a variety of sizes/types lying around so I’ll use what seems like the best fit

 

[Cassie]

On closer inspection of the various brick piles in the garden, the majority of them are London bricks

 

[Cassie]

There are other types but they look deteriorated

 

[Cubist]

Those have never been used, a bit grimy and some lichen, but nothing to worry about. I would not be concerned unless there were signs of cracks or the surfaces were flaking. As I suggested, put them in a dry place and check them again before use.

 

[Cassie]

Will do thanks for your help !

 

[Cubist]

Cheers Cassie and good luck with the restoraion of your porch. BTW, the indented part of a brick is called a frog; don't put them in a box.