Ooo look! I've just found £250m down the back of the sofa...

[Feltwell]

Thanks for all the concerned posts regarding my forthcoming towing adventure. I'm very put off now! It's a little Vitara and they have a reputation for rolling! Perhaps I'm better off waiting for Dad to get back from his holiday, he has a big Pajero and spends half the year towing a heavy caravan round the mountains of Spain and France.
I see the company does this one:
http://www.hirestation.co.uk/product.php?productid=1002

You wouldn't need that one - that has a petrol pressure washer built in. This one would be suitable and should be comfortably within the towing limits of a Vitara

http://www.hirestation.co.uk/hirestation/catalogue/Water+Bowsers/260200/detail/1000.html

You'd get one cheaper than the price they quote on there if you shopped around.

If you wanted the bigger 1000 litre bowser then yes, something like a Pajero would be much more suitable than a Vitara to tow it.

What are you going to do when you get back to Beacon cottage though, if you say you have steps to get to the house? Have a pump and put the water in your rainwater tank? You'll only be able to manoeuvre a full water bowser when it's attached to the back of the towcar.

 

[Feltwell]

@Feltwell No, I hadn't considered a trailer. It's a very good idea. Currently, it's awkward to get wheeled things through the garden as the path is stepped but I'm thinking of redesigning that so that it's sloped instead.
That could really help for when we get doddery - thanks F!

Something like this would be perfect, you can pick them up secondhand cheaper than this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Dut...ailers_Transporters_Parts&hash=item2c5f2a86f1

My trailer gets used for umpteen jobs, carrying motorbikes, rubbish to the tip, furniture, building materials - it's paid for itself many times over, I'm sure you'd get more use out of it than just wheelie bin shifting. They are always in demand secondhand as well so are easy to sell on for a good price if you find you don't need it. Unless you really need to move very heavy things then get an unbraked trailer - cheaper & less maintenance than a braked trailer, I've found in the past that the brakes have an annoying habit of seizing up if you don't use it for a while.

Just be careful to check out your local authority rules about trailers if you'd use one to take stuff to your local recycling centres - some get very funny about trailers and put all sorts of bizarre rules in about what sizes are allowed and what aren't.

 

[philpjuk100]

Water storage can be quite cheap if a little ugly see ebay Item number: 220655345239.

 

[Penners]

Joce

Given all your various problems about bowsers, access to the house for a trailer, dealing with a bulk quantity of water, and so on, I have an alternative suggestion.

Buy yourself a modest sized trailer and a whole load of caravan water carriers - this sort of thing:

If you judge it right, you should be able to get enough water carriers to exactly cover the floor of the trailer. This will give you:-

* A stable load of water - lots of smaller "compartments"
* A safer, more manageable tow
* The water divided into easily carriable loads, for manhandling at home
* A useful trailer for other jobs, when it's not being used for water
* In the long run, I suspect this would be a cheaper solution

You'll probably have to resign yourself to slightly more frequent water-fetching trips, but given all the risks and problems of the bowser idea, I suggest that this is a minor inconvenience.

Be sure to do your sums over the total weight of the water-filled trailer, so you know whether to buy a braked or unbraked trailer, and what size it should be..

 

[worms]

I don't like to dump it on the premises as that's a real no-no for bio security. This summer we've had to battle Cocci, Mareks,red mite and 'flu so the amount of wasted bedding has been terrible. I hate filling up the landfill but disease is wiping out my bantams so I've had to throw scruples to the wind and just sweep and sweep and sweep to attempt to contain it. Maybe I should try to set fire to it a bit more than I do.

I know very little about chickens and I'm sure you are taking good veterinary advice, but...

I am pretty sure that the coccidia risk is more from the foraging area than the bedding and that the red mites spend their non-feeding time in the crevices in the coop rather than in the bedding. There is little that you can do to keep the foraging area clean, so I think I would be resorting to a good in-feed coccidiastat.

I'm sure you are cleaning the coop as best you can (and you said before that you were using diatomaceous earth) but I would want to get something into all the cracks and crevices. Either something soapy or oily that will interfere with their ability to breathe or move. (I wonder if raw linseed would work?!)

With the amount of land available to you, sending all your used bedding to landfill seems a lot of work. Could you not create a post and chicken wire square somewhere beyond the range of the chooks to accommodate this as a compost heap? It will take a while to rot down (but will depend on the dropping:bedding ratio and moisture content). If it heats at all it will hasten the demise of the coccidia oocysts and any red mites in the bedding.

I'm way out of touch on Marek's, is there no suitable vaccine in UK?

 

[Lime]

With all this trouble and expense, how much would it cost to have a mains water pipe laid?

 

[LadyArowana]

With all this trouble and expense, how much would it cost to have a mains water pipe laid?

I *think* there is a reason that isn't an option, it's a borehole job and not cheap.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks so much for all your very kind messages, you are all so lovely! Mains is 20k.
The bowser was a great success, the little Suzuki managed 1100 litres without difficulty. The hose is pouring it into the rainwater pit right now, and we think another 2 bowser loads will fit. The pipe at Croxton worked brilliantly.

Having said that, a trailer with many caravan containers would be an excellent thing for me to own and get to grips with - great idea as usual Mr P!

Worms, a fab idea to fence off a bedding composting area, I think I'll do just that. Thanks for your pointers about the ailments too. Yes, there's a Mareks vaccine; must be administered at 1 day old. The next lot I hatch will get it!

Feltwell / thanks so much for all the very detailed technical advice, so useful, I read it all aloud to C and it didn't make him less gung ho but it did make him slow down a bit.

 

[Keith Bowman]

Thanks so much for all your very kind messages, you are all so lovely! Mains is 20k. .....

Are you absolutely sure that is a firm quote? We have no 'main' here either. When we asked Anglian Water about a water supply for the farm buildings we wanted to convert, they sent a man out to look and eventually came back with a figure of £50,000. The borehole people said £10k but wouldn't guarantee a supply and the developer said it had to be a proper supply from Anglian Water or the deal was off. So we took a (very) deep breath and I rang Anglian Water to give them the go-ahead. To cut a longish story short, the woman in the Anglian Water office then worked out a firm quotation - at the princely sum of £7,677. And so - if they have said £20k to you, make very sure they are not just quoting a ridiculous figure to try putting you off.

 

[Flyfisher]

Joce, you may have already thought about this but have you considered a large water tank and regular deliveries of domestic water?

I've just checked our consumption and it seems to average out at a bit less than 0.25 m3 or 250 litres per day (which seems an awful lot to me, but that's what our bills state).

A 20,000 litre underground tank seems to cost about £3000 (http://www.tanks-direct.co.uk/underground_water_tanks) and based on our consumption would last about 80 days.

This company can deliver large quantities of drinking-quality water: http://www.water-direct.co.uk/water-tankers, and there is probably a similar company more local to you. I don't know the cost but it might be worth enquiring. A regular supply contract would almost certainly be cheaper than a one-off delivery.

We pay about £1.37 per 1m3 = 1000 litres for mains water, so filling a 20,000 litre tank would cost less than £28. Let's say £40 to allow the delivery company some profit. I don't know what they would charge for delivery but let's say £30, so that's £70 for 20,000 litres of water which might last around 80 days - or around £320 per year, £27 per month.

So a £3,000 tank plus, say, £2000 installation = £5,000 and then £320 per year.

Obviously these are all rough figures and would need to be verified, especially the water delivery costs, but it might be worth considering as an alternative to a borehole.

Just thinking out loud . . .

 

[Feltwell]

Very valid, although I can see that the lack of a reliable water supply - be it mains or borehole - will put many potential purchasers off if you try to sell in the future.

Not so valid if you plan to be carried out of Beacon Cottage in many years time in a wooden box though! But you never know the future. We know that this house won't be our last, it's too big really for a couple where the kids have grown up and moved on and we have stairs everywhere - even the first floor is actually on 3 different levels, and the attic stairs are very steep. My mother, only in her mid-60's but with slightly dodgy knees, already finds our stairs a bit of a struggle when she visits.

 

[Flyfisher]

Actually, I was thinking that water delivery might possibly be more reliable than a borehole, depending on the conditions. It's certainly as reliable as heating oil or LPG deliveries.

As for being carried out in a box, there's no need for that; just find a nice spot in the grounds and keep a close watch on the old place for evermore. :wink:

 

[Penners]

Good old FF!

Joce, that has to worth thinking about. £27 a month for a proper water supply (although I guess you'd have to add a modest extra cost for running an electric pump) is no more than you'd pay for mains water (I confess that I haven't checked our water bills when I say that, but I don't think I'm far wrong). I'm not sure how the £5000 capital cost compares with the cost of a borehole.

As to Feltwell's concern about the saleability of the house, I'm not qualified comment other than to say that buying a house with that arrangement wouldn't put me off - particularly if someone else had paid the costs of installation!

 

[Feltwell]

It wouldn't put me off either Penners, but I suspect we're a bit more open-minded about these things than the average house buyer.

But maybe they should stick to their UPVC'd "Barrett Box" on a nice estate somewhere anyway :wink:

 

[Penners]

That's probably true, Feltwell, but I don't see the "average" housebuyer being interested in Beacon Cottage. I reckon the type of person who would genuinely be attracted to the property would be almost as relaxed about a private water supply as they would about private drainage.

However, if Joce and Chris find themselves considering the idea seriously, perhaps they could seek views from an estate agent or two.

 

[Moo]

it's too big really for a couple where the kids have grown up and moved on

... but do remember that when they do return you will have to provide accommodation for their partners and, in the fullness of time, their children (who will turn into teenagers...).
A friend who had downsized had to put them all up in local B&Bs when she ran out of space.

 

[Feltwell]

You mean they come BACK Moo? :shock: :lol:

This isn't a palace by any means but I really couldn't justify a large house for just myself & Mrs F, and this place does cost a lot to heat. A 3 bed house should surely should be adequate for a couple - a bedrom for us, a guest room and a study that camp beds can be put up in for kids if necessary. I'd quite happily trade down in size but not in value in order to get a lovely view and/or particularly nice gardens.

 

[Penners]

it's too big really for a couple where the kids have grown up and moved on

... but do remember that when they do return you will have to provide accommodation for their partners and, in the fullness of time, their children (who will turn into teenagers...).
A friend who had downsized had to put them all up in local B&Bs when she ran out of space.

What a good soul you are, Moo.

I, on the other hand, regard it as a positive advantage that we don't have room for all of our offspring, their spouses and their children to stay with us at once. Fortunately, our local B&B is our daughter, who has plenty of room only 20 minutes away.

Heh, heh, heh! :twisted:

 

[JoceAndChris]

If I become disabled I won't be able to stay here. But there is little point speculating about the future, you just have to do what seems right at the time. Maybe in twenty years I'll be completely sick of it, but I can't imagine feeling that way now.

Thank you so much for the kind thinking aloud about the water delivery. I got a quote from water-direct.co.uk and it's £430 for 15,000 litres. A clean new tank is around £3000, burying it and plumbing it perhaps another £1000? So it doesn't seem a very cheap option, and doesn't compare to the cheapness of our current solution of hiring a bowser for a week for £60 and filling it up freely in Croxton. Admittedly we can only really get around 5000 litres of non-drinking water this week ( we think our rainwater pit will take 8000 litres)

A borehole is 6-12k depending on what kind of rock they find. I wouldn't have a borehole unless they could 100% guarantee unlimited water forever. That can be discovered at the survey point, I think.

The 20k mains quote was to bring it over the fields from Harrowby - 1 mile, and not our land.

Some of you might remember we bought the house with the understanding mains was being laid on. The previous owner has dug the trench and laid the pipe correctly down to our nearest point, and then he left us to pay for connection. Anglian Water said it was impossible as we'd need to have a pumping station built into the hedgerow down there as there isn't sufficient pressure to get the water up the hill. I wouldn't feel happy about doing this unless we bought that bit of hedgerow and had full legal rights over our pumping station. How much it would be to buy the land and build a pumping station - that I don't know. But on top of whatever that was ( and I think it would be many thousand) there would be water rates.

All in all it seems that the borehole is the cheapest and best solution if they can guarantee unlimited water. I also think I might then be able to sell water cheaply to the people who have bought fields around me, and make money back on it. I can extract 20,000 l per day legally. If Planning Permission is granted for dwellings around here, we could supply the development, and make back all our investment.

 

[philpjuk100]

Joce! you have left the tap running!