Ogden Tobacco Factory listing

[skier-hughes]

So let's just chuck it away then?

 

[Nemesis]

If you can find somewhere to take the accumulator (which needs the rest of the equipment to operate it) then I suggest you contact the site owners PDQ.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Aim high, yes, but be prepared to compromise. Surely it's better to save an engine in a museum than let it be destroyed along with its original building? Presumably all those facades and interiors now in the V&A would have been destroyed along with their original buildings and context. Is worthwhile preservation only "all or nothing"?

On the other hand (and actually it's not entirely true of the VandA examples) had there not been a "good home" for the items and a culture of thinking that such removals were better than lodsing them entirely, perhaps a bit more effort would have gone into keeping them on their original sites?

Naming no names, but some open-air museums have a pretty poor reputation for "collecting" buildings that aren't really under threat -at least not until the museums approach the owners and say "can we have that?"

 

[Nemesis]

It would be best all round if the entire assembly was retained on site. The site it was designed for.

It's like when EH sent round that circular to say that mill machinery wasn't listed along with the building...

No reason why, IF it can be found EH hadn't got it right, that the decision couldn't be be reversed. Unless of course the wrecking ball is used in the meanwhile.

The engines are nice to have for someone but the whole is far, far better and more interesting than dislocated sums of parts.

(We used to have in Hexham a wonderful chemist's shop, complete with interior. The exterior is lovely too but... anyhow, the interior of this listed building was allowed to be stripped out and removed to a museum... in Lunnon...)

http://www.makingthemodernworld.org.uk/stories/the_second_industrial_revolution/02.ST.05/?scene=3&tv=true

Click on the pics for more...

 

[renewablejohn]

Nemesis

Response I have received from Laura Warren after I contacted Annike Nickson at EH

If you consider that the decision not to list the building has been wrongly made which appears to be the case from your email to Annike Nickson you may request that the Secretary of State reviews the decision in certain circumstances. I would be grateful if you could submit confirmation that you wish to request a review including supporting evidence where appropriate within 28 days of 13th March 2008.

Laura Warren
Listing Review Officer
Architecture And Historic Enviroment Division
Department fir Culture Media and Sport
Tel 02072112366
Fax 02072116130

Website http://www.culture.gov.uk
annika.nickson@english-heritage.org.uk

I have put in a request to save the engine house but obviously that does not stop other people putting in an opinion by the sound of it it may not be to late.

 

[Nemesis]

Well my experience of Laura Warren's reviews isn't too positive, but she can only go on the information given. I hope that the problems of communication re DCMS and EH have been sorted out. It will have to be new and relevant info though, expand on why you feel possibly an error was made and how you feel the machinery is in some way unique, backed up preferably by expert opinion, EH will have to be asked again, and EH doesn't like changing its mind.

Refer to relevant parts of:

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/circularrevisions

There is growing appreciation not just of the architectural set pieces, but of many more
structures, especially industrial, agricultural and other vernacular buildings that,
although sometimes individually unassuming, collectively reflect some of the most
distinctive and creative aspects of English history.

If only! Although things are getting a little better and the DCMS has overidden EH a few times of late.

Have you actually discussed it with the inspector who gave the recommendation?

Have you his/her report?

Nothing in the meantime to prevent the developer going in with a wrecking ball.

Worth pointing out to DCMS a re-use scheme exists.

 

[renewablejohn]

Nemesis

Nothing in the report about the significance of the hydraulic accumulator only mention of the steam engines which are of course easier to move. Is it also the last pre war chimney left in Liverpool ?? I know Burnley have put listings on all their pre war chimneys.

 

[Nemesis]

OK. But Burnley doesn't list chimneys or anything else - the Secretary of State does.

Do call EH and discuss it. They aren't always expert in everything. It's worth sending in an appeal, but it will have to be a good one.

 

[Nemesis]

I note it's Wimpey:

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/business/business-local/2007/08/29/new-homes-plan-for-tobacco-factory-64375-19701261/

HOWEVER:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/03/13/ogden-site-home-bid-snub-100252-20615103/

I'll see what I can find out tomorrow as I'm in Lunnon and will be meeting a few historians, but this needs someone local who is an industrial archaeologist to have the fine details.

What does Pevsner say? I can put you in touch with Richard...

http://www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/acan/2647.shtml


More info here:
http://www.mcgahey.co.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=32

 

[Nemesis]

OK - I now need as much info as possible asap - including EH's docs (which I can get from EH but it will take time).

Then will see what can be done, if anything.

 

[renewablejohn]

Nemesis

If you email me I will reply with what documents I have got

 

[Nemesis]

There's a PM sitting in my outbox which has the details... hopefully you can get stuff to me and I can muster support.