Oak door frame

[FamilyWiggs]

I have bought some lengths of air dried oak, with a view to turning them into a doorframe for my 16thC Welsh farmhouse project.

Thought it was about time that I leanred how to make proper joints, etc.

I know I need to square off the edge, and am reading about mortice & tenon joints. Can anyone (I seem to remember biffvernon works with wood) point mt to a step by step guide either online or offline? I'm intending some fairly simple moulding/beading to match other original frames in the house. Is it best to rout out the wood and then chisel by hand, or do the lot by chisel?

Many thanks for any tips/advice

 

[Penners]

Moulding your door frame can be done a number of ways - by hand, with chisels being the most difficult/skillful/time consuming!

If you want to be traditional about your mouldings, you could use a moulding plane. There are many different types, but here's one example:

Or you could use a modern router, with appropriately shaped cutter(s). This will give you a more "perfect" but less handworked look. On oak, be sure that your cutters are really sharp and get plenty of practice on some offcuts before you launch into the real thing. Push the router along too fast and you'll splinter the wood; too slow and you can burn it.

My favourite book on all things relating to woodworking is the Collins Complete Woodworker's Manual. Click here. But it does tend to concentrate on modern machine-based woodworking, rather than traditional handwork.

 

[Penners]

FamilyWiggs

Have you ever used a router before? If not, then it occurs to me that I should make a few more comments.

Remember the golden rule - there is no such thing as a slight accident with a router! In the wrong hands they can be very dangerous - the cutter turns at enormous speed. But so long as you're careful and sensible, a router is a brilliantly versatile tool, and it's well worth learning how to use one.

Always, ALWAYS make your cut against the rotation direction of the blade. If your try to cut with the rotation direction of the blade it can snatch uncontrollably and dangerously, ruining your work (and potentially you, too).

Never rush. Secure your workpiece solidly to a bench. Plan your cut and rehearse it, so that you don't hit any unforeseen snags. Get yourself in a comfortable, stable position, and don't have any loose clothing flapping about. Work smoothly and carefully.

I hope that doesn't sound patronising!

If you intend to do the moulding manually, then hopefully Biff will add his thoughts. He's vastly more experienced than I am.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners - many thanks. I'll get a copy of the Collins book, the write-up on Amazon looks good. Anyone else got any other joinery book tips to share? Is there a similar discussion forum to PPUK for traditional joinery? I can't seem to find one - just the usual diydoctor type.

I have been buying various planes cheaply from junk shops and ebay for a while now, planning for this doorframe. What I'm not absolutely clear on is the process to get from my boards (about 5in sq) to a doorframe, hence my post.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners - not at all patronising. I am very grateful for the advice; this site is a real help.

Thanks

Robin

 

[biffvernon]

If there are two ways of doing it, do it the easier way. Make a virtue of minimalism and simplicity of design. To recreate what folk did a century or two ago requires years of apprenticeship, a lifetime of hard labour and poverty beyond our wildest nightmares. We have the advantage of electricity and resin glues, allowing time for waking hours away from the shed.

Most joints shown in books are more complex than is required to connect four bits of oak to form a door frame. For a doorway in a 16th century farmhouse I'd not bother with a moulding - just chamfer off the corners with a small hand plane. Anything more sounds as though you are trying to impress the neighbours.

I use an old moulding plane to create the beads on a plank door - I haven't found a router cutter that does that job - and it is quite satisfying when it goes right.

 

[Penners]

What I'm not absolutely clear on is the process to get from my boards (about 5in sq) to a doorframe

I'm not quite sure what you're unclear about, but here are some basic comments. However, do remember that nothing is set in stone - it all depends on how you want your door frame to look.

The 5in square oak should be nicely planed, and the arrises (ie: sharp corners) either moulded or at least softened. Hard edges of oak can be very sharp and painful if you bash against them. Don't mould or soften the arrises of the head until assembly is complete - unless you want to stop the mouldings - because the mouldings would run over the tops of the uprights.

You'll need two uprights, with the head bridging across the tops of them. Obviously you must cut your uprights 5in longer than their required finished height, so you can cut tenons on the end. The head should be at least 10in longer than the required width of the doorway, so that you can cut a mortice in each end (actually it can make life easier if you make the head even longer by two or three inches at each end. This makes it easier to cut the mortices without risk of splitting the wood. You then cut these "horns" off flush with the outside faces of the uprights after the frame has been constructed).

If you don't fancy your chances at cutting decent tenons and mortices, here's a cheat method. Cut your uprights to the exact height that you want the doorway. Cut the head to bridge across the full width of the uprights. Cramp up the structure firmly and accurately as a temporary assembly.

Buy some good dowelling - about an inch in diameter is good - and a drill the exact diameter of the dowelling. Drill down through each end of the head and at least 2in. into the end-grain of the uprights, ensuring that your cramped-up structure doesn't move during the drilling process. I would drill two holes at each end for stability.

Now cut four pieces of dowelling the length of the full depth of your holes. You'll make your life easier if you slightly taper the ends of the dowels. Squeeze some glue quite generously into the holes, spreading it around the insides faces, and then hammer in the the dowels. They will now act as tenons, securing the structure. Make sure the head is cramped tightly to the ends of the uprights while the glue is drying.

Biff will probably be shuddering in horror at my shortcut method, but it does work!

 

[Penners]

Oops! Biff's watching. Now I'm in trouble....

 

[biffvernon]

Not at all. When I started reading your post, Penners, I thought, hmm, that's all a bit professional, there's room for plenty of cheating. So I was relieved when reading on you came up with a simple solution.

The simplest sort of cheat tennon and 'mortice' is where you cut a slot a third of the width of the timber in the end of one piece and cut a third off each side of the other piece so it slots in. It's called an 'open mortice and tennon joint'. The whole thing can be done with a bench saw (with no guard on the blade, of course). My ancient book (Hasluck) describes your joint, Penners, as a 'dowelled post and sill' (or in this case a dowelled post and lintel though you probably need a sill at the bottom to make the doorframe have four sides.

Five inches square of oak is quite, er, thick. No worries about the ceiling falling down.

 

[biffvernon]

PS. Instead of buying dowelling I just whittle my own. You can get it really round by finishing off on a belt sander turning the piece slowly minding your finger tips.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Dear both,

Many thanks for your help - I am most grateful.

Whilst I am certainly inclined to modern convenience, I do want to try and produce something that I can be proud of for a long time to come.

I think the open mortice & tenon joint sounds the way to go for a first attempt, and Penner's step-by-step guide is most helpful. I'll let you know how I get on. Really looking forward to starting to develop a new (old) skill.

The other frames in the house have simple moulding (more elaborate on the main door) which I will try and recreate.

Robin

 

[Penners]

The other frames in the house have simple moulding (more elaborate on the main door) which I will try and recreate.

Robin

Can you post a picture of the moulding? It would be interesting to see it.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Penners, I'm away from home for Easter and the only photo I have access to is the main outer door.

The moulding is currently hidden underneath many layers of limewash, but you can get the gist from the pic below.

http://periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8938&hilit=datestone

 

[Penners]

you can get the gist from the pic below

Hmmm - vaguely lumpy shape under a quarter of an inch of paint. That'll be tricky to reproduce! :wink:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Ah, but the think paint will helpfully cover up the many sins of an amateur! :roll:

Actually, the interior frames won't be painted, so the moulding will be clear to see.

 

[biffvernon]

One of the curious things about real linseed oil paint is that it forms a very thin film. I reveals all the little bumps.

 

[Penners]

the interior frames won't be painted, so the moulding will be clear to see.

Better get it right then. We shall expect pictures when you've done it!

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

5" square is massive for a door frame - are these structural components you're making?

Joints can be pretty rudimentary provided the top joints can resist the inward force from the weight of the door acting on the hinge stile. A basic shouldered butt joint will suffice if you add a few nails or dowels to maintain lateral alignment. Once the frame is fixed to the walls then the joints have relatively little to do.

You can save a bit of work by using a planted (nailed on) stop rather than cutting a rebate into the frame - this may well look more "authentic" too. A joinery historian will be along shortly to advise you.

A router is certainly useful for forming mouldings, but involves a hefty capital investment. If you do go down that route then spend as much as you can on a decent machine - avoid the cheap DIY rubbish which you can buy in the high street. You may well struggle to match old mouldings with the available range of cutters, in which case a cheap alternative is a scratch-stock. This is simply a blade (old bit of scraper or saw blade) ground to the desired profile and held in a simple wooden stock which can be run against a reference edge. It works surprisingly well, and the slightly irreguar finish of the moulding gives the 'hand made' look which you don't get with a routered job. The beads on the door below were formed in this way.

More pics on my site.

 

[biffvernon]

Certainly agree with planted stops. That allows you to match the non-flat, non-square, non-upright character of all decent doorways. Add the stops after you have hung the door.

(My PowerPro router from B & Q has done a great many hours of service. I'm on my third set of brushes, which were supplied free. My only complaint is that the new brushes are quite tricky to fit.)

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I've got the rest of the slate flags to lay today, so won't get to the doorframe until next weekend.

Thanks for the advice, I'll post pics when complete.

Incidentally, without an expensive table-based thicknesser/planer, how do I ensure that I have sqaured posts to begin with?