New windows for a grade 2 cottage

[DJN]

I have been developing a cottage for 7 months.
The cottage was originally converted into a shop in the 60.

We have had change of use and started turning it back to resemble its forma cottage.

My problem is I have been dealing with the most useless council in the country.

Apart from taking 7 months to give me consent to put in replacement window, and not allowing Georgian casements like the next door.
I have just been told by enforcement that the replacement window units I have put in are not acceptable, as they are “K Glass double glassing conforming to building regs and government low carbon insulation requirements”.

I am now wondering what is the right installation for such windows? All the window within the property are a mish mash of single and double glazed and Georgian and single casements.
:evil:

 

[Penners]

You're going to have get guidance from your Conservation Officer on the correct windows.

Are your double-glazed units wood or uPVC? If the latter, then that's a no-no for a start. You'll probably also find that the double glazing has necessitated wider-than-acceptable glazing bars.

You say that you applied for consent - have you installed windows that were exactly what you received consent for? If so, then you probably have the right to tell the CO that he/she must accept them. If not, then he/she is obviously insisting on compliance with the LBC - not unreasonably.

 

[Flyfisher]

For my LBC application I had to include full details of the new windows with drawings, dimensions, type of glass etc. The consent was specifically granted based on that spec.

I agree with Penners, if you have installed exactly what was consented then I don't see how the CO or building enforcement can ask for anything more.

 

[DJN]

Thanks for your notes

The problem is they only asked for larger scale drawing of the wooden casement windows after permission was given.

The drawing sent in was a 1:50 of the front of the cottage.

The council CO was so useless I complained about him to the seniors, and it has come back on me I think.

Im after some regulation and ammunition to fire back to justify the double glazing.

I have committed to be sympathetic to the development and installed wood casements with 3inch leading double captured. As these windows match the windows of a building down the lane. And the previous windows were 1.5m2 shop windows.

Rgds

D

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Not quite clear from the original post what has happened and what type(s) of consent he has. It reads a bit as if he has Building Regs Consent for the new double glazed windows (as they wouldn't let him have "Georgian casements" by which I infer single glazed - which would presumably be acceptable in Listed Building terms) but not Listed Building Consent - because the enforcement seems to revolve around their double-glazed-ness - ie unsuitablitiy of appearance in a historic building. Perhaps we could have a clarification because just calling whatever permission exists "consent" doesn't help as it could be one of two things.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Thanks for your notes

The problem is they only asked for larger scale drawing of the wooden casement windows after permission was given.

The drawing sent in was a 1:50 of the front of the cottage.

D

It is usual to leave detailed drawings (which I would interpret as 1:5 or thereabouts - sections and plans through jambs, cills, heads and glazing bars) to be dealt with as a conditon. I don't see why that should present a "problem".

 

[biffvernon]

But on the 29th of November you said

conservation have given approval for new casements

. Could you perhaps explain again just what you have consent for, what you have done and what you have been told is not acceptable?

 

[Nemesis]

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused...

 

[DJN]

I was given consent to proceed in October with the installation of new windows as per my application in June and subsequent 1:5 window detailed drawings and method statement and risk assessment sent in- in September.


After the windows were installed the planners sent further correspondence to request further window details as they had misplaced them.

The building enforcement then said the windows are unacceptable due to the nature of the Building relations section L compliance.

Help - Has anyone any further ammunition to counteract this conservation officers awkwardness.(as a result of my complaining about poor performance)

D

 

[Nemesis]

Well, as Gareth is a CO maybe you aren't asking in the right place.

Wahy has the CO done that is so very bad?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I was given consent to proceed in October with the installation of new windows as per my application in June and subsequent 1:5 window detailed drawings and method statement and risk assessment sent in- in September.


After the windows were installed the planners sent further correspondence to request further window details as they had misplaced them.

The building enforcement then said the windows are unacceptable due to the nature of the Building relations section L compliance.

Help - Has anyone any further ammunition to counteract this conservation officers awkwardness.(as a result of my complaining about poor performance)

D

I'm finding it very difficult to follow this. Can you confirm that the permission you have is Listed Building Consent?

And what is the Part L problem - that they do comply with part L, or that they don't? (if the latter is the case then the enforcement would seem to be coming from the Building Regulations rather than the Conservation Officer, and there may well be a solution)

 

[DJN]

Well, as Gareth is a CO maybe you aren't asking in the right place.

Wahy has the CO done that is so very bad?

In short; I placed an application for new windows and to redo the inside in June after the 2 months of consultation with Conservation.

July after phoning up planning, to see about progress; they stated that conservation had rejected it.
I then spoke to CO to see what was wrong said he had not read the latest application but went from a drawing and conversation we had in May, as he has lots pass his desk.

After one or 2 words of disbelief that he can just make a blanket rejection without looking at site or the application, I came in to the office to complain about this conduct and rejecting without looking at documents and details, the senior officer

 

[Penners]

I'm finding it very difficult to follow this.

Me too.

David Norris - it is not unusual for Listed Building Consent for works to be granted with conditions. These are invariably listed and detailed in the letter of consent,

Are you sure that your LBC wasn't conditional upon your providing large-scale drawings of the windows, showing all dimensions, mouldings and so on? Mine was.

If it was, and you failed to do this, then there is every possibility that you have installed windows that are unacceptable to the Conservation Officer (whether or not they are acceptable to Building Control).

But if you complied with this condition, and received Listed Building Consent for the windows that you have installed, then you have every right to challenge the CO's objection to them.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I'm finding it very difficult to follow this.

Me too.

David Norris - it is not unusual for Listed Building Consent for works to be granted with conditions. These are invariably listed and detailed in the letter of consent,

Are you sure that your LBC wasn't conditional upon your providing large-scale drawings of the windows, showing all dimensions, mouldings and so on? Mine was.

If it was, and you failed to do this, then there is every possibility that you have installed windows that are unacceptable to the Conservation Officer (whether or not they are acceptable to Building Control).

But if you complied with this condition, and received Listed Building Consent for the windows that you have installed, then you have every right to challenge the CO's objection to them.

If it is the CO who's objecting. That's one of the things I'm not clear about.

 

[biffvernon]

But on the 29th of November you said

conservation have given approval for new casements

Could you perhaps explain again just what you have consent for, what you have done and what you have been told is not acceptable?

I'm still none the wiser since now you say

July after phoning up planning, to see about progress; they stated that conservation had rejected it.

David, there are several people on this forum who might be able to help you, but only after you have explained clearly what you have consent for, what you have done and what you have been told is not acceptable.

Posting pictures of your house with it's new unacceptable windows and the drawings submitted might save a thousand words.

 

[DJN]

further to confusion:

There were no details of window in the consent i.e. double-glazed, and now they are in the CO has stated that they are not acceptable to enforcement.
Hence my notes to you all.

I am after the backup to justify the double-glazing IE conforming to Section L building regs or government guidance for low carbon buildings for replacement window installation.

As I have had no engagement until now from CO only the building reg. Dept; which is why I have breached consent by followed to the letter from building regulations.

 

[Schoolmarm]

So you haven't had any listed building consent from the CO?

 

[Mark]

I still don't understand.

How about you start again and explain what you do and do not have in the way of permission from the Planners, the building regs and the Conservation officer.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

further to confusion:

There were no details of window in the consent i.e. double-glazed, and now they are in the CO has stated that they are not acceptable to enforcement.
Hence my notes to you all.

I am after the backup to justify the double-glazing IE conforming to Section L building regs or government guidance for low carbon buildings for replacement window installation.

As I have had no engagement until now from CO only the building reg. Dept; which is why I have breached consent by followed to the letter from building regulations.

I'm sorry, but you are adding to the confusion. If you could give one-word answers to the following questions, I'd be very grateful and might even be able to help.

1. Do you have Listed Building Consent for the work?
1a. If "yes", did the details you submitted show single glazing, or double glazing, or neither?
1b. Were those details approved as part of your Listed Building Consent?

2. Do you have Building Regulations Consent for the work?
2a. Did the details submitted for Building Regulations match those (if any) submitted and approved for Listed Building Consent?

3. Has the work been done in accordance with the details submitted for whatever consent you have?

 

[DJN]

garath

I have breached my consent, as I have installed Double glazing.

No mention of the windows in the consent, as all details previously sent.

Further letter from the council after consent was granted with caveats adhered too; stated they wanted further window details of the windows previously sent in.

I had proceeded on the consent 2-month prior, engaged with building regs, and installed the wood casements with “Double glazing as per building regs.

Now is there any reason why the CO would do this, and is there any backup for me to justify the Double glazed units