New window book

[Gervase]

Haven't a clue what it's like, but Amazon flagged it up in my inbox - Windows: History, Repair and Conservation. Pricey, though, at £65.
The blurb says:

The window has a long and fascinating history. It has evolved in response to the availability of resources, developments in design and technology, and the demands of those who use them. At once functional and aesthetic, the window must keep out the weather, provide ventilation, prevent intruders and buffer sound. Windows are also integral to the appearance of buildings, reflecting the practice and taste of particular regions or periods. The window cannot be seen in isolation from the building fabric in which it is set. Windows presents, for the first time, an encyclopaedic treatment of the history and conservation of windows. Bringing together the knowledge of leading historians in the field and the practical understanding of experienced conservation practitioners, this book is accessible to amateur and professional alike. It is remarkable that an object as functional as the historic window should have such a rich history, covering so many diverse disciplines. It includes a review of past and present legislation on the form and performance of the window, from requirements reflecting the modern concern for energy efficiency to the preservation of the historic window within designated conservation areas.

 

[Nemesis]

Should be OK, it's from Donhead:

http://www.donhead.com/

http://www.donhead.com/windows.htm

 

[biffvernon]

That'll be by Mike Tuppen of, amongst other things The Construction History Society and Elizabeth Hirst of Hirst Conservation. (There's a curious picture of Elizabeth on their website. I was tempted to copy it here but a rude message about poaching popped out - some firms like to avoid publicity.)

 

[biffvernon]

Curiously, Amazon are charging an extra £1.99 'sourcing fee'. What's that about? Don't they know where Donhead live? Mind you, they don't charge delivery as it's over (well over) £15, while Donhead charge £3.95

You can see some sample pages on the Donhead website.

 

[skier-hughes]

Amazon don't always stock everything and do deals with people/businesses whereby they list the item and sell it as Amazon, but it actually comes direct from the third party.
Amazon make money by charging a sourcing fee and a small administrative fee to the business.

 

[biffvernon]

Yes but so would any bookshop where you order a book that they don't have in stock. Amazon will be buying a £65 book at a lot less than the recommended price, maybe £40. But then they add on an Extra £1.99, pretending its cost extra to source from a small publisher like Donhead.

 

[skier-hughes]

Sorry, didn't make it clear.

It appears to be being purchased from Amazon, it is in fact only being advertised there, a bit like ebay shops.

Amazon do not make anything from the sale, (they do not buy it in and/or resell it even as a special order), except the source fee and a small annual fee from the supplier.

I'm just setting up such a deal with them for a client of mine.

This is often the case when delivery estimates are at the range this book is in. It may be printed to order, as lots of "non-mainstream" books are these days.

There are also deals where Amazon will stock the item, not having paid for it and sell it on your behalf, very crafty!! but more sales are often generated this way as the item is in stock and sent out immediately.

There are a string of other similar deals which all have different terms.

 

[biffvernon]

Eh? Are you saying that Amazon are not making anything from selling a £65 book other than the £1.99 'sourcing fee', which probably doesn't cover the postage (or does Donhead pay that postage, even when it arrives in an Amazon wrapper). I find that hard to believe. Why shouldn't they collect their usual retailers' margin?

 

[skier-hughes]

Because it depends on the deal done with the publisher.

How many books like this will Amazon sell per year?

If they list the book it adds to their overall coverage, more people look at the site and they sell more overall.

How much would it cost Amazon to buy, stock and manage a few books, a considerable amount if it displaces a part of the stock room that a new bestseller could be taking up.

If Amazon wouldn't list this book where else could the publisher advertise and sell it and get the same amount of coverage?

Ebay?

How many shops does Ebay have now?

Ebay was a site for selling off old second hand goods, now if you look for an item, how often do you find that item as a second hand version and how often are you looking at new items held up for sale?

Think of it more as a marketing tool for Amazon than a direct money making item. They can claim to be selling thousands of rare or unusual books whereas in reality they are doing nothing of the sort, but if you wanted to find an unusual book, you'd look on Amazon.

The publisher, selling at full retail price can afford to cover the postage of the item.
Besides I doube Amazon pay much at all for postage, how many items a day do they send out? They must be bombarded with offers to take their business.

Anyway, I am making assumptions here on what may be happening, based on my knowledge of Amazon and their working practises, I may be wrong........ so if you want a definitive answer why not ask Amazon or Donhead

 

[biffvernon]

Hmmm. I can see that Amazon won't want to use their warehouse space on a book that only sells a handful of copies, but, just like any high street retailer, it doesn't make sense to forego a twenty quid profit for each book it orders from the publisher and sends out to a customer. That'll explain why they say it takes 3 weeks not 3 days.

Anyway, I'll let you know what Amazon say.

 

[Flyfisher]

This example sounds like the ebay shops previously mentioned. I've bought books 'from' Amazon where my credit card was debited directly by the specialist supplier and was also dispatched directly by them. Apart from hosting the ordering process, Amazon themselves didn't seem to be involved in the transaction at all and I assume my contract was with the specialist supplier.

It does sound like smart marketing though. What would you rather do; make £20 profit selling a relatively few books or make £1 commission on every sale through a web-based 'shop window' used by a huge percentage of on-line shoppers?

Perhaps it's Amazon's strategy to get out of direct sales - with all those expensive stock and warehousing issues - altogether? All they need is for everyone to buy via their website and rake in the commissions. That sort of business model could be managed with ridiculously low overhead costs, providing the brand is strong enough, which it probably is with Amazon.

Another example of how the web is changing commerce.

 

[Penners]

Flippin' 'eck! Sixty-five quid?

You could get a nice little uPVC window for that.

 

[biffvernon]

Amazon didn't take long to reply, but I'm not sure we're much further on:

Dear Customer

Thank you for contacting Amazon.co.uk.

We are sorry for any inconvenience or confusion we may have caused
you. I take this opportunity to assist you in this regard.

When a book is displayed on our website as "Usually dispatched
within 4 to 6 weeks. Please note that titles occasionally go out of
print or publishers run out of stock", the availability estimate
indicates that the book is a Special Order title.

We contact the publisher directly to obtain a Special Order title,
and they typically supply it to us within a few weeks of your order
being placed. Some Special Order book titles take more time and
effort for us to locate than others, and in these cases we add an
additional handling charge of GBP 1.99 (excluding VAT) per item to
the cost of the order.

Any applicable handling charges are listed on individual product
information pages. They're also listed as part of your product price
when you get to the last step in the order process before you
confirm your order.

Thank you for your interest in Amazon.co.uk.

Please let us know if this e-mail answered your question:

Warmest regards

Sageinganbi N.
Customer Service
Amazon.co.uk

> ---------------
> 10/15/07 14:06:45
> Your name:Biff Vernon
> Comments:I'm thinking of buying a book:
>
> Windows: History, Repair and Conservation (Hardcover)
> by Michael Tutton (Editor), Elizabeth Hirst (Editor)
>
> Price: £65.00 + £1.99 sourcing fee
>
> Could you please explain why you are charging more than the cover
price? Surely the publisher, Donhead, is not difficult to find. On
a book this expensive I would have thought Amazon might offer a
discount on the price offered by the publisher.
>
> Biff Vernon
> ---------------
>

 

[skier-hughes]

:roll:

 

[Ian Bond]

I think that at least one of us ought to buy the book, now that they've gone to all that extra trouble Biff.

 

[alice]

Amazon also "stocks" titles simply so that they can say they have one of everything. Think of them as loss leaders. The don't make much on the sale of an individual book, but the £1.99 does pay for the electrons to advertise the book and they hope that you'll want the convenience of ordering your books from one site with one credit card bill. What they want is that while you're on the site you'll also buy other books from them with higher mark-ups.

I love Amazon, but they can't beat a good bookstore.

alice

 

[biffvernon]

Well I love amazon too. They seem very happy to reply to me. Anyone find this helpful?

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting Amazon.co.uk.

I am sorry for any misunderstanding may caused you in this regard.

After researching our website found that this item "Windows:
History, Repair and Conservation (Hardcover)" is listed as Usually
dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks.

Our availability estimates, which are listed on an item's
information page, range from In Stock to 4 to 6 weeks. These reflect
whether we have the item in our inventory already (we usually have
if its displayed as In Stock), or the time it normally takes to
receive the item from a supplier.

As this book is displayed on our website as "Usually dispatched
within 4 to 6 weeks, it normally takes listed time to receive the
item from a supplier.

Some books take more time, effort or expense than others to locate
and obtain through our usual suppliers. In these cases we add an
additional handling charge of £1.99 (excluding VAT) per item to the
cost of the order.

Any applicable handling charges are listed on individual product
information pages. They're also listed as part of your product price
when you get to the last step in the order process before you confirm
your order.


Thank you for your interest in Amazon.co.uk.

Warmest regards

Yogesh
Customer Service
Amazon.co.uk

>Date: Mon Oct 15 20:01:42 UTC 2007

> Hi Sageinganbi N.
> Thanks for your reply but it doesn't answer my question. This
book is not out of print or out of stock - it was only published a
few days ago and the publishers, Donhead, have copies available.
>
> Biff

 

[skier-hughes]

Sending an email to Donhead saying we want a book is obviously far more time consuming and involves days of effort, than sending an email to any other publisher.

Do amazon have any books in stock from Donhead?

 

[biffvernon]

Interesting question, Graham. I put "donhead" into the publisher box on adavanced book search and got 84 results. Most are in the 4-6 week category, so presumably are not lying about in the Amazon warehouse. But not all. A few are available straight away, for example Cements, Limes and Plaster by E. C. Eckel, clearly another must read, is availble now and at a mere £39.60 when the RRP is £60. That was the sort of discount I was hoping for, for the Windows book.

 

[Penners]

Some books take more time, effort or expense than others to locate and obtain

One can only hope that good old Yogesh gets an extra day off to recover from all that effort.