New Grump of the Day

[Zebra]

Not so much a grump because it's not my house and not my problem. Just an incredible thing I've seen that I'm putting here because it doesn't warrant its own thread.
A friend of a friend has bought a very neglected Victorian terrace in North London. There's clearly been a long-term leak, and the floorboards and joists have rotted to an absolutely incredible extent, seen here from underneath... The joists are so crumbly, if poked with a stick bits fall off. The floorboards are basically fragments. Not even Mr Newell could save them. I suspect it's the carpet and force of habit holding it all up there.
The problem is that there's a storage heater right above which has come away from the wall and is at risk of falling right through.
We've been trying to come up with a plan for removing the storage heater before it falls through, but of course you can't walk on the floor to get to it. It's under a window so I came up with the idea of removing it through the window on a ladder from the outside, but as my friend pointed out, how would you get there to open the window?

 

[malcolm]

That is a tricky one. The storage heaters normally come apart so you can remove the bricks one by one but you still need to get to it. Acro prop underneath will be no good as if one side of the floor fails it'll have a side load and fall over. Going to need something like a box structure built out of something like 2x2 with cross bracing and a board on top to support what's left of the floor.

What a state that's in.

 

[a twig]

Put an old mattress on the ground floor to catch it and poke it with a large stick from a safe distance until it all falls down?

 

[LadyArowana]

We've been trying to come up with a plan for removing the storage heater before it falls through, but of course you can't walk on the floor to get to it. It's under a window so I came up with the idea of removing it through the window on a ladder from the outside, but as my friend pointed out, how would you get there to open the window?

Oh this is an easy one, let it be known in the neighbourhood that that the previous owner was a hoarder who kept his money in gold coins hidden disguised in a storage heater in a particular room. Leave a handy ladder nearby. Make sure that there are correct ‘elf and safety’ legal site notices on the property to avoid problems of dead thieves, wait, it’ll be gone soon enough.

 

[Richeee]

If you use acrows from below, insert a spreader at the bottom and the top. Also nail the acrows in to the spreader. Normally a saffold board . Funny enough thats what the holes in the end plates of the accrows are for. As the load alters accrows that were once tight can become loose and fall. An accrow in the small of the back is not pleasant.

Also remember that storage heaters of a certain age had asbestos in them. This can be disturbed when removing the bricks.

 

[paulc]

Cat has decided he doesn't like my choice of wallpaper in the stairwell. Now have several gashes where he has been clawing at the walls. At some 16ft for the longest drop, I really don't want to be hanging more wallpaper...

Anyone want a cat (comes complete with a recipe book) ?

 

[Lacan07]

Cat has decided he doesn't like my choice of wallpaper in the stairwell. Now have several gashes where he has been clawing at the walls. At some 16ft for the longest drop, I really don't want to be hanging more wallpaper...

Anyone want a cat (comes complete with a recipe book) ?

The trouble with cats is you can't tell them what to do.

 

[Flyfisher]

I doubt you'd be able to remove the storage heater through the window from the outside because they are very heavy. Perhaps if there was scaffolding but I wouldn;t fancy it from a ladder. but as Malcom said, they usually come apart easily (a few screws) so the bricks could be removed one by one, but again that depends on how easy it would be to lean in through the window to reach the thing from a ladder.

I'm glad it's not my problem but if it was I think I'd use acrow-props and scaffold boards to support the ceiling/floor underneath the storage heater. As mentioned above nail/screw the props to the scaffold board to prevent slippage. I'd also try to extend the scaffold boards in some way (4x2s?)so that they extend to the walls of the room, thereby preventing them moving in that direction. Then repeat that arrangement a metre or so from the first props and then fix something suitable (more 4x2s?) across both scaffold boards to prevent movement in the other direction (a sort of 'box' structure that Malcom mentioned). With things stabilised it should then be possible to cut an access hole through the ceiling close enough to the storage heater to reach it from a suitable ladder. Then dismantle it and pass down the internal bricks one by one until the whole unit is light enough to also safely pass down.

Horrible job though and not without risk.

More dramatically, and assuming the whole ceiling/floor has got to be replaced anyway, stand in the doorway of the downstair room and poke the ceiling with a scaffold pole or similar until it all falls down, storage heater and all!

Or just leave it to a builder . . .

 

[Gothichome]

Gold coins or copper, either will work.

 

[Lacan07]

I appreciate Gas safe engineers do an important job but do they really have to charge just over £300 to connect a short run of pipe from my relocated gas meter to the boiler. Its literally the other side of the wall. I get they have to check for leaks but he left all the brick dust for me to clear up and didn't bother finishing / patching the leaky hole he'd left in the wall. Time spent at the house about 90 mins in all.

Yeah, I'm probably a tight fisted grump.

 

[paulc]

I appreciate Gas safe engineers do an important job but do they really have to charge just over £300 to connect a short run of pipe from my relocated gas meter to the boiler. Its literally the other side of the wall. I get they have to check for leaks but he left all the brick dust for me to clear up and didn't bother finishing / patching the leaky hole he'd left in the wall. Time spent at the house about 90 mins in all.

Yeah, I'm probably a tight fisted grump.

Yet a service on a gad boiler takes an hour or more and costs somewhere between £60 and £100. So yes, £300 just for a little bit of copper pipe is expensive.
As for the 'erbert that installed the boiler here, I had to make the final connection to the mains, wire in the thermostat and do the earth bonding. All because he said "I'm not a qualified electrician".. Then they have the temerity to ring me and book an annual service.

 

[Lacan07]

Yet a service on a gad boiler takes an hour or more and costs somewhere between £60 and £100. So yes, £300 just for a little bit of copper pipe is expensive.
As for the 'erbert that installed the boiler here, I had to make the final connection to the mains, wire in the thermostat and do the earth bonding. All because he said "I'm not a qualified electrician".. Then they have the temerity to ring me and book an annual service.

This one told me he charged £80 for a boiler service and said it would take 30 mins. He was due to fire it up but I politely declined.

That's interesting, my electrician installed a spur for the boiler but didn't wire it in, he said the plumber would want to do that, which he did to be fair.

 

[a twig]

I was quoted £90 for the electrical installation of our cooker, literally a 2 minute job taking the existing already stripped and prepared 6mm T + E and attaching it to the three terminals before putting a cover on which involves two small screws.

Needs a qualified electrician to install it according to BS7671 apparently

Last time I installed a cooker it just said “by a competent person” which given my electrical engineering qualifications made me think I could probably just about manage it

 

[paulc]

I was quoted £90 for the electrical installation of our cooker, literally a 2 minute job taking the existing already stripped and prepared 6mm T + E and attaching it to the three terminals before putting a cover on which involves two small screws.

Needs a qualified electrician to install it according to BS7671 apparently

Last time I installed a cooker it just said “by a competent person” which given my electrical engineering qualifications made me think I could probably just about manage it

A new circuit must be installed by a "competent person" and a Part P certificate should be issued (this can be done by a registered electrician, or Building Control).
If you are just replacing a damaged cable or switch/socket, it just needs to be a competent person. Same for moving a socket/switch. The rules also allow for minor changes to be made to wiring without resorting to employing a registered electrician as long as the work is BS7671 compliant.
There is no central database detailing the number of sockets, switches, or circuits in a house, so once minor repairs have been done, Big Brother isn't going to come banging on your door.

Claims that you have to get a qualified electrician in to do anything it just propaganda put out by the NICEIC and their cronies so that they can have a monopoly. Legislation does not define a "competent person" nor the qualifications required.

 

[paulc]

This one told me he charged £80 for a boiler service and said it would take 30 mins. He was due to fire it up but I politely declined.

In fairness, a Gas Safe engineer would need to fire up the boiler to check the pressure drop between boiler & meter is within limits and confirm that gas is being burnt cleanly.

 

[fernicarry]

Claims that you have to get a qualified electrician in to do anything it just propaganda put out by the NICEIC and their cronies so that they can have a monopoly. Legislation does not define a "competent person" nor the qualifications required.

Indeed. I consider myself to be perfectly competent for the kinds of works I do in my own home. But if worst came to worst, say a visitor was injured, or the building burned down, the only way to *demonstrate* competence would be via membership of one of the approved schemes.

I'm just waiting for EICR's to become mandatory at sale time like they already are for tenancies. Kaching, kaching.

 

[Lacan07]

In fairness, a Gas Safe engineer would need to fire up the boiler to check the pressure drop between boiler & meter is within limits and confirm that gas is being burnt cleanly.

Yeah, I'm not touching it. I'm going to pass it on to my brothers m8 who's a gas safe engineer.

 

[Zebra]

I was quoted £90 for the electrical installation of our cooker, literally a 2 minute job taking the existing already stripped and prepared 6mm T + E and attaching it to the three terminals before putting a cover on which involves two small screws.

Needs a qualified electrician to install it according to BS7671 apparently

Last time I installed a cooker it just said “by a competent person” which given my electrical engineering qualifications made me think I could probably just about manage it

If it's a like for like replacement with no new wiring, where in BS7671 does it say it has to be done by a qualified electrician? Do you know the chapter and regulation number?
That question wouldn't even be covered by BS7671 in my opinion. That's more a matter for the Part P regulations, which state that new wiring in a kitchen requires sign off by a Part P registered electrician, but not like for like replacement.

 

[a twig]

If it's a like for like replacement with no new wiring, where in BS7671 does it say it has to be done by a qualified electrician? Do you know the chapter and regulation number?
That question wouldn't even be covered by BS7671 in my opinion. That's more a matter for the Part P regulations, which state that new wiring in a kitchen requires sign off by a Part P registered electrician, but not like for like replacement.

I agree entirely but here’s the relevant page on the cooker manual. I also can’t imagine having a 3 phase supply in a domestic kitchen

 

[paulc]

I agree entirely but here’s the relevant page on the cooker manual.

Pffft.... Who reads the manual anyway.