New Grump of the Day

[Feltwell]

I'm with you on the inflation kits by the way. Useless things. I now adopt the policy that if the compressor alone can't inflate the tyre enough to drive to the tyre depot, then it's call out the breakdown truck.

 

[Penners]

The tyre centre chap said that Holts Tyre Weld is a better solution. It's a pressurised can, so no compressor is needed, and the squirty stuff is a foam, which makes it more able to fill holes (within limits). He said it can also be removed from the tyre afterwards, allowing it to be repaired (where possible).

So next time I'm in Halfords....

 

[Keith Bowman]

they belong to the puppet master and when you change supplier they have no-one to talk to! The poncy gizmo screen goes blank and cannot work out how much you have used.

Really, Keith - do you know that for a fact?! I asked the technician who fitted the device what would happen if I changed electricity supplier. He just shrugged and said, "the new supplier will take over the smart meter".

Was that his coded way of saying, "Don't know, don't care. I just fit 'em."

Yes - true alternative fact! We had the smart meter put in when we were with EON. Some six months later when our annual contract came up for renewal they wanted a huge rise. So we switched to SSE. Now the meter has no-one to talk to and the remote screen thing has no facility for giving the current reading. :roll:

 

[paulc]

I know this is not the place for helpful suggestions, malcs, but is the whole thing mounted on a board, which you can just unscrew and relocate by yourself, without them ever knowing?

If the incoming cable is old, the insulation is likely to be brittle and liable to disintegrate - In which case, best left well alone.

That said, if the insulation is breaking down, you could give the Distribution Network Operator a call and report it as a dangerous installation. They would then be obliged to come out and fix (I believe, free of charge).

 

[Penners]

Yes - true alternative fact! We had the smart meter put in when we were with EON. Some six months later when our annual contract came up for renewal they wanted a huge rise. So we switched to SSE. Now the meter has no-one to talk to and the remote screen thing has no facility for giving the current reading.

Well, our contract is up for renewal in a few weeks' time, and having seen the increase that our current ( :lol: ) provider wants, we're very unlikely to stay with them. So that'll be an interesting situation!

 

[malcolm]

I know this is not the place for helpful suggestions, malcs, but is the whole thing mounted on a board, which you can just unscrew and relocate by yourself, without them ever knowing?

If the incoming cable is old, the insulation is likely to be brittle and liable to disintegrate - In which case, best left well alone.

That said, if the insulation is breaking down, you could give the Distribution Network Operator a call and report it as a dangerous installation. They would then be obliged to come out and fix (I believe, free of charge).

I didn't spot your post Zebra. The installation is on a board and the cable does appear to twist easily without blowing up so it could potentially end up shifting to the adjoining wall at the same height. That might be n option - it seems silly for the installation to be on the side wall of an alcove as the door opening prevents anything else from being in the alcove.

Did I mention my electricity supplier wanted to charge me £1600 just after I moved in because the previous occupants hadn't paid their bill. They got all excited about court action. That was British Gas too.

 

[Zebra]

If you were to dig a little, could you get a bit more slack on the incoming cable, so that you can move it more gently without stressing or twisting it too much? It's risky, because there's no way back if it does blow up, but that's what I did with mine. Happy to come lend a hoof if you want to give it a go!...

I have heard that too, that if you change suppliers your smart meter becomes a stupid meter, i.e. still readable, but doesn't communicate with anything.

 

[Penners]

I have heard that too, that if you change suppliers your smart meter becomes a stupid meter

Well, talk about not thinking a project through - how absobleedinlutely ridiculous! The industry couldn't come up with a standard meter that's remotely readable by all suppliers?! Do me a favour....! :roll: :roll: :roll:

Smart meter - dumb planning!

 

[Flyfisher]

That does seem rather dumb.

When I was trying to convince our electricity supplier that one of our meters had been removed they referred me to Siemens as they are the company that deal with meter issues on behalf of all the supplying companies, which sort of makes sense (a bit like BT Openreach running the telephone infrastructure regardless of your provider) and I think they also said that Siemens also read the meters, not the individual electricity supply companies. My recollection is not entirely clear about that, but if true then it would make more sense for Siemens to be managing all these new smart meters.

According to this the implications of switching suppliers are even more murky. It seems that your smart meter may or may not work with a new supplier, depending on what type it is. Unbelievable!! I thought this is the sort of confusion the industry regulator is supposed to prevent? How naive of me.
https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/smart-technology/smart-meters/can-i-switch-energy-suppliers-with-smart-meter.html

 

[DJH]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/05/33000-day-sse-smart-meter-glitch-quotes-customers-40-times-annual/

 

[Flyfisher]

Also, according to this, there IS a government specification for 'universal' smart meters but not all suppliers currently meet them and have been fitting 'advanced meters' that will probably have to be replaced in the future.

It also states that no one should be forced into having a smart meter fitted. Hmm.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

 

[paulc]

On the subject of leccy meters & consumer units.... Some numpty in the (not so) distant past has gone and used a length of 10mm² twin+earth between the meter and CU. Main fuse is rated 80/100A, main breaker for 100A, and an intermediary RCCB at 60A. Picked up some new tails on Friday and intended to fit them over the weekend. Stripped back the outer insulation only to find I had been supplied with two lengths of blue.... :roll:

 

[Penners]

Some numpty in the (not so) distant past has gone and used a length of 10mm² twin+earth between the meter and CU.

It's interesting to see that, if you Google 'cable for meter tails' you'll get offered cables of 10mm^2, 16mm^2 and 25mm^2, all described as 'meter tails'. I'm astonished that this can happen! Surely any meter installation should be specified to cope not just with the current demands of the building at the time, but also to cope with any conceivable increase in the future.

For example, imagine that a householder suddenly decides to install a 9kW electric shower. I wonder how many people in that situation would stop and think, 'hang on - will the electricity supply into the house be able to handle this?' Some better-informed DIYers would use the correct TW&E supply cable and MCB in the consumer unit, but would they stop to wonder whether their meter tails are up to the demand?

 

[Flyfisher]

I suppose that sort of scenario is precisely why the rules on DIY electricianship were changed. I know there are still some electrical works that can be DIYed without approval but I'm pretty sure that wiring up a 9kW shower unit is not one of them. Of course, that doesn't mean it hasn't been done somewhere.

Also, if an installation with 10mm meter tails is correctly fused then overloading the house supply should not actually be dangerous per se, albeit inconvenient when the supply fuse blows!

 

[a twig]

Smart meters are a terrible idea, they are poorly implemented, and pose a security risk. In a lot of cases once installed the signal (they use a 2G mobile SIM) isn't good enough, so they still have to be read anyway. In addition the cost of the roll out is adding more onto everyone's bill.

Having a couple of friends who work in the consumer electrical supply industry - I asked them about it, turns out the companies themselves really do not want smart meters either. Companies don't want the extra cost and administration that smart meters provide. On the whole energy companies also do quite well out of estimated billing.

So companies are being forced to supply something that both they and the majority of consumers do not want. Surprise surprise therefore, companies are doing the bare minimum to comply.

 

[d49xc]

So far smart meters have been to the SMETS1 standard - which is basically unlikely to be interchangeable between suppliers.
New new meters which are meant to be being installed from mid this year are to SMETS2 standard which are interchangeable between suppliers and can 'talk' to the area DNO to say inform them of power cuts.

There are meant to be plans on how to upgrade SMETS1's to SMETS2 standard - but in practice I suspect they will end up having to retrofit all SMETS1 installations with new SMETS2 meters.

Not surprisingly then Scottish Power have been writing to me and ringing me (divert to answerphone) wanting to fix a date to install smart meters - I suppose desperate to shift their financially depreciating soon to be redundant stock of SMETS1's.
Equally not surprisingly I have ignored them all.

I did hear that the meters communicate on the 2G mobile network albeit on a dedicated channel. If so that is going to get interesting in the 2020's when the 2G mobile phone network is closed down. At which point either someone is going to have to pay a lot of money to the telecoms Co's to keep it running - or we are going to have to go all round the circle again and install new (SMETS3 ROTFL!) meters.

Smart meters offer the possibility of real time pricing variations. So along will come the even more complex tarrifs which charge different amounts at different times of the day, different times of the year and even as very large user already do get charged different amounts if you go over a set KW in a defined time period.
So while not compulsory I expect various 'incentives' to get people to accept them much like the drive to use monthly D.Debits and paperless billing was driven by price reductions offers.
Indeed taken to its logical silly conclusion a home owner could have a dedicated computer running an analysis program 24/7 communication with and getting bids in for the supply of the next hour's electric/gas supply and swapping suppliers all automatically on an hourly basis.

 

[Hobden]

Being an old cynic I find a good general rule is "you lose".

 

[paulc]

I know there are still some electrical works that can be DIYed without approval but I'm pretty sure that wiring up a 9kW shower unit is not one of them.

An electric shower falls under the heading of "notifiable works" so needs to be signed off by either building control or a suitably qualified/registered electrician. There are a variety of small jobs that can be done by a competent DIYer without consent/approval of BC such as: Replacing a length of cable or fitting, adding a fused spur, socket, or light (but not in a bathroom).

Replacing a consumer unit, adding a new circuit, or any work in a wet area are all notifiable along with the attendant costs & paperwork (for good reason).

10mm² tails are questionable on a 60A supply, and certainly way to small for 80A. Installing the replacement 16mm² tails, I find that the immersion circuit is somehow cross linked to the ring main, and the lighting ring isn't (just one run of 1mm² cable out of the CU).

 

[tobydog]

Paul,

This isn't really a Grump so I'll keep it brief. We had our bathroom refitted last year. Partly due to the fact we are thatched, we had all the mains powered down-lighters replaced with LED. We fitted electric under floor heating and a new 10.8kw shower unit. Due to the power of the shower, we had a new consumer unit fitted for the whole house in place of all the old fuse box. The new cabling for the shower was run through the old E7 heating cable ducts. The electrician did a good job, we settled up, and that was that. Are you saying that we should have had these works signed off by someone else in addition? Somewhat concerned because our thatch insurance requires us to have a recent (five years old I think) electrical report and we've not had one done since the bathroom was finished.

Thanks

 

[paulc]

You should have received a certificate from the electrician stating that the work was complaint with part P of the building regulations - Like installers of windows, gas boilers, and wood burners, they can self certify work they carry out so you don't have to go through the hassles of involving Building Control yourself.