My house wants its fields back

[Tom]

£4.50 a bale for naff stuff??? :shock: Where abouts are you? Around here it's about £3 for really good stuff.

I believe the knotting mechanisms can be tempremental but fairly easy to fix, too. My friend has a small baler and is always cursing the knotting but she still gets her hay in

If you're going down the baling route, just make sure there's no Ragwort in it. Thistles are a curse for people handling the bales but not harmful to stock. Nettles are good (plenty of iron).

Jaqy

 

[Flyfisher]

The field was full of nettles before I started cutting it. I've been told it's a sign of fertile soil; not too surprising in East Anglia I suppose. The garden was equally full of nettles (still is in places) but regular mowing seems to kill them off. Little except grass seems to survive regular mowing.

I knew small bales of hay (and straw) can fetch good prices these days. I've read it's because most farmers have now moved over to the big bales, which can only be handled using suitable machinery. Not a problem for most big farms these days, but not too helpful for smallholders and equestrian centres.

Hmm. Now you've got me thinking again . . . . !

 

[DaveBrigg]

On a hill? Buy the land and put a wind turbine on it. The biggest you can get permission for. If you want less hassle, some power companies will install the hardware themselves, and pay good rent for use of the land. It is a profitable business with one of the strongest guarantees of being viable in the long term, and you'll be helping the planet too!

 

[Tom]

You're absolutely right why people pay a premium for small bales;

1. People can collect them themselves on smaller trailers if their storage area is small
2. They're can be carried by hand
3. They can be stacked by hand
4. They can be stored in buildings with small entrances
5. They can be stored in traditional haylofts
6. Feed can be given in slices, so less wastage with it falling all over the place

Further, if you can get it certified as being organic, some people will pay even more!! You could even consider selling it in smaller quantities by mail order or 'at the gate' for rabbits, guinea pigs etc with a massive mark up

It really is worth considering.....I'm jealous!!!! :mrgreen:

Jaqy

 

[Tom]

On a hill? Buy the land and put a wind turbine on it. The biggest you can get permission for. If you want less hassle, some power companies will install the hardware themselves, and pay good rent for use of the land. It is a profitable business with one of the strongest guarantees of being viable in the long term, and you'll be helping the planet too!

Whilst this might suit some people, others would consider the value of the house to be greatly reduced with a wind turbine in the back garden. In order to have it miles away from the house, Joce would have to buy many, many acres of land and any rent paid by the power company would take years and years before it was into profit.

Jaqy

 

[skier-hughes]

but couldn't it pump up the water to the house making it more valuable again?

 

[Tom]

Just my personal opinion, of course, but having mains water would not override a wind turbine on my doorstep. In fact, I'd see well water as a distinct advantage

Jaqy

 

[Gareth Hughes]

but couldn't it pump up the water to the house making it more valuable again?

To be turn-of-the-last-century-historically-and-regionally-authentic, Joce could have one of these, manufactured just up the road

 

[DaveBrigg]

From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3257728.ece

"LAVISH subsidies and high electricity prices have turned Britain’s onshore wind farms into an extraordinary moneyspinner, with a single turbine capable of generating £500,000 of pure profit per year.

According to new industry figures, a typical 2 megawatt (2MW) turbine can now generate power worth £200,000 on the wholesale markets - plus another £300,000 of subsidy from taxpayers.

Since such turbines cost around £2m to build and last for 20 or more years, it means they can pay for themselves in just 4-5 years and then produce nothing but profit."

Lincolnshire seems to be a prime site for wind farms.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

If they're generating £200k worth of power a year - payback without subsidy therefore 10 years - that does seem to undermine the whole "they don't work" 'argument' trotted out by the strange, shadowy gangs of anti windfarm lobbyists

 

[Moo]

I still stand by my first thought, which was to buy first and think about what to do with the land later.

Consider all the ideas that have so far been tossed into the debate and then imagine that someone else buys the land and puts one or more of them into practice.
How do you feel about having a housing estate or mini-wind-farm behind your house?
Or a conifer plantation?
Or someone else's livestock breaking into your garden?
Or an equestrian centre, with lots of Thelwell children racketing around at weekends and school holidays?

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Crumbs, last time I looked at this thread there were only 6 replies, but everyone seems to have the bit between their teeth now!

My only thoughts are that if you have to borrow money to purchase the land then it would be a good idea to have a business/ return plan in mind. Whatever you choose to use it for will take at least 3 years before you begin to see a return for you outlay. If I were younger, or if there was not a 'credit crunch'with a strangled lending world around us, then I would agree with Moo, and say 'to hell with it, buy it and think about it later', but i honestly think you should expect a return for your investment.--- anyway what about the house to be finished :?

 

[Tom]

Joce's house stands on it's own, quite a distance from any other property. With the best will in the world the land in question could not be seen as infill for a long, long time, so she's hugely unlikely to see any housing development put there.

It's also unlikely that anyone else would start an equestrian centre there. People with horses are unlikely to pay for unoccupied livery because of the security risk..theft, fire etc.

If someone else wanted to change it to grazing land then they would be responsible for the fencing of their livestock and could be sued for any damage done by loose animals.

Yes, someone else could put in for permission for a wind farm. I believe that's possible but not probable.

At the end of the day, given the situation and lie of this land, it's just arable land and will probably be sold to another farmer who will continue to farm.

But, if I wanted to frighten Joce into taking out a mortgage to buy land she didn't know she needed and take her money away from the house that's she's trying to renovate, I could say someone may buy it and use it for quad biking or motorcross. Imagine THAT noise every weekend :shock: However, it's as unlikely as most of the above.

Jaqy

 

[JoceAndChris]

Many thanks for all the extremely interesting responses. It's a fascinating debate, to me at any rate! And I really appreciate the hands-on advice of those of you who have experience of owning big chunks of land and sheep rearing.

Just got back from our weekend away and have checked the landowner's website and it is 150 acres,so pretty much the whole of the hill I'd imagine. I need to make some enquiries tomorrow about whether it can be split up into smaller sections. I would guess 150 acres would be big enough for me to have a windfarm and a housing estate and an equestrian centre behind my house. :shock:

Maybe we should sell our London flat and buy the lot.

I think jaqi's right though, it's unlikely it will be developed anytime soon. remember there's no road and the amenity of the footpaths are prized by the town- it's considered to be a local beauty spot (which is a somewhat grandiose term for a hilltop overlooking a fairly ugly town), but I think there are plenty of better spots for new housing right now. Of course that could all change in the next 20 years.

 

[Schoolmarm]

Jaqy, I am in the north west and our supplier usually buys all their stuff from near you :lol:

The latest stuff is so bad though, it can only have been made in our area as it never stayed dry for long enough at the right time this summer
I also failed to "get" mine and am now going to have to buy in



I50 acres is an awful lot. If it is decent arable it could fetch 2 to 3 thousand per acre. Rough grazing could make 1 to 2 thousand even.

 

[Tom]

Jaqy, I am in the north west and our supplier usually buys all their stuff from near you :lol:

The latest stuff is so bad though, it can only have been made in our area as it never stayed dry for long enough at the right time this summer
I also failed to "get" mine and am now going to have to buy in

The right time this summer was so small a window for the arable farmers, around here some were working 24/7. On a good year we can get 10 round bales off our land but I didn't even bother this year. I'll have to buy in for the sheep but I have the horses on Hi-Fi Lite because of the risk of Laminitis...now that IS expensive !!! :shock: :roll:

Jaqy

 

[Wren]

If you want to rent out some or all of the fields to local farmers, then local agents that deal with agricultural sales will be able to advise on rental price per acre for different types of livestock or other use. I suspect you will find that the rental income is pretty low such that you won't really expect financial payback via this route on any reasonable timescale.
They will may also advise on likely price per acre. But how much it goes for, now or in the future, will depend on who actually wants it rather than some average price (next to nothing, or if competing with other neighbouring house owners who want it badly enough then sky's the limit).
The horsey option sounds interesting in theory (probably only marginally more lucrative than renting it for agricultural uses), but also has downsides as already mentioned on this thread. I think one of the important questions here is access to the land - if you would effectively be sharing the existing driveway/parking area with lots of 4X4 driving horse owners then could get a bit tiresome.

Other options are to use the land for rare breed sheep, an orchard, nuttery, or wildflower/hay meadow. But all require some effort so would need to be pretty passionate to go ahead with this? One final thought though if you are keen - if buying a field or two also gives direct access to some fantastics walks rather than taking a circuitous route on the road then this could be a very nice added bonus.

P.S. Just spotted your latest post - 150 acres! That is a whole different ball game.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks for the advice Wren, and everyone! Yes, 150 acres is a bit much. That's got to be beyond the horizon, I haven't even walked over there yet! :lol:

It would be a pain to share the mile of track with anyone - but it is already. Dog walkers park their cars there even though they've no business to, it's a footpath but not a public road. We're the ones who have to maintain it, the various farmers who come up here in tractors have no interest in doing so. There is also already terrible disturbance with quad bikes, police are always up and down to try and put a stop to it. And then there are the drug dealers, and the lovers... At least if there was some venture up here the track might be maintained and all this nuisance might stop.

There are other tracks though, I've seen kids in 4 x 4s drive up ours, then across the fields where there's no track at all, through the hedge, onto another track and finally onto a road some distance away. :roll: So the access point to whatever is developed in the future, if anything is developed other than arable farming, might not be ours, and might improve the current conditions.

It's not all perfect living in isolation - sometimes I even think a couple of neighbours wouldn't come amiss!

Whilst I love the ideas of an orchard, a wood, a giant herd of rare breed sheep etc I suppose I have to admit that there's only one of me and currently I can't even cope with my 1.5 acre garden! It's a tricky decision to make, we're wavering.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Joce - I think the 150 acres is a bit of a game changer! That takes you from "landowner" into the realms of the Squirearchy! Think of the outfits you would need to wear in that role! 8) (pics please!)

However, it may work in your favour. Have a chat to the current owner or auctioneer. They may well sell you the two or five acres nearest or surrounding your cottage, on the basis that it could be a good fixed rate per acre from you, whilst the auction rate for 145 or 148 or 150 acres is pretty much the same. They may well end up making more overall out of the sale.

TBH, you only really want a few acres for your scale of "pretty sheep" and free range chooks and pea-devils. I have around 20 acres between owned and rented, and it is quite a responsibility just to keep it in reasonable condition. I view it more as a vocation/love and not a livelihood.

That said, if so minded, you could probably just about make a reasonable living from 150 acres (provided you don't have to service the mortgage for it as well as make a living from it!)

 

[Schoolmarm]

I rented about twelve acres to one of my farmer neighbours this year. Two weeks for about 20 cows and ten calves earnt me £100.

The downside is I now have to dodge the poo piles when I walk the dogs

I truly loathe cow poo.