Material changes that could affect you all...

[biffvernon]

I'm not convinced that being past peak oil (if indeed we are) is incompatible with oil and gas not running out in our children's lifetime. There are still large reserves to be found (drilling starts around The Falklands soon - should be good for another conflict with Argentina) as well as the ones we already know about but just need energy prices to rise to become economic to extract.

We will never 'run out' of oil. There will always be some left but that's not the point. More important than ultimate recoverable reserves is the rate at which it can be extracted. If that rate is lower than the economy demands at a price that allows the economy to function... then the economy dies.

Of course some people will not see what happens and they will blame politicians or bankers or some new-found scapegoat but lurking in the background is the fact that the world economy will not cope with the oil production decline curve.

The real tragedy is that the more we put sticking plasters over the system to hold it together a little longer, the more we will exploit the unconventional oils, deep sea, Arctic, tar sands, oil shales and, of course, coal, the sooner we go over the climate tipping points and make the end of humanity, and perhaps even all life, inevitable.

Whether or not you insulate your house is of little consequence. What counts is not burning carbon. Already I can't see any way in which my own 18th century farmhouse can survive the sea level rise.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Biff - we're in danger of going round this cycle again!

I think this is the bit where I say, if it is all so futile and we're really are doomed, we may as well go for strong economic growth and burn the oil anyway. This would give us a) a good party and b) the economic muscle to protect our geo-political interests whilst we hope the boffins come up with a solution.

Joce comes in and says she can't feel responsible to unseen future generations she'll never meet (and then goes off to paint something).

FF and PF will be very erudite and sensible, but blame the CRU and Copenhagen.

Penners then sallies forth with a witty double entendre to lighten the moment.

I usually finish by imploring everyone to stockpile guns, food and sandbags! Last time I even offered you workshop space as I am lucky enough to be at 800 feet or so 8)

This isn't meant to kill the topic - but we're running out of fresh things to say on the topic! :shock:

 

[Flyfisher]

Good summary, except you forget to add we're still doomed.

Last time I even offered you workshop space as I am lucky enough to be at 800 feet or so 8)

Do you think it might get a tad crowded up there?

Perhaps it was unwise to move from about 350ft asl in Hertfordshire to about 20ft asl in Norfolk. On the other hand, if the timing is right it might be nice to live beside the sea in my dotage.

 

[AMc]

You can badly fit an A rated window so it underperforms a C rated one, but that doesn't seem to factor in. Surely if we actually care about performance the installation should be assessed job by job not the quality of a factory sample?

At least with building inspections everybody has to use a level playing field. When your inspector comes to a big site or a small one, they have the same obligations and look at what you've done not what you said you'd do in the application forms. With this AFAIK you send a nice window to be tested then promise that everything else you ever make will be just as good?
Self certification is a dangerous idea IMHO but is being used to apply tougher regulations without facing up to the true cost.

 

[biffvernon]

With this AFAIK you send a nice window to be tested then promise that everything else you ever make will be just as good?

Which is a tad tricky for a bespoke joiner when every window you make is an individual design. So, (pace Robin) to bring the thread back to its start, my point is that to solve the problem the government purports to be addressing, carbon should be taxed and rationed and we should be free to have whatever windows we like and leave them open when we want to feel the fresh air.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

(pace Robin)

Biff - I really wasn't meaning to be critical. You've been here far longer than I and are much much more knowledgable on pretty much every period topic than I am.

I'd just like some of your windows - and if it takes a biblical flood to get you to move into my outbuildings, I just think some prices are worth paying!!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

I fully intend to have whatever windows I want in my vaulted undercroft and am quite prepared to break all sorts of silly laws to get them. I don't believe anyone would know or care what I did up here anyway.

Robin - :lol: - I feel a little softer towards the unborn future people these days. Not soft enough to give up my hedonistic 21st century lifestyle though!

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I fully intend to have whatever windows I want in my vaulted undercroft and am quite prepared to break all sorts of silly laws to get them. I don't believe anyone would know or care what I did up here anyway.

Hear hear. By the time I come to sell this place the regulations will have changed, so I doubt I'll have problems if I've replaced any more of the DG with nice wooden units with reclaimed wobbly glass.

Robin - :lol: - I feel a little softer towards the unborn future people these days.

Must be all those paint fumes addling your brain. :roll:

 

[Penners]

Remember, the accreditation will be for EACH TYPE of window made. I make about a hundred wooden windows a year, many for jobs needing Listed Building Consent. Hardly any job is the same as the other.

Thanks for giving us all a heads-up on this, Joiner.

I find it deeply worrying. To state the obvious, windows represent one of the most important defining characteristics of a period building, and as you and Biff have both said in your own ways, you don't make windowtypes - you make special, bespoke windows to suit the individual character of a particular building.

The logical conclusion of this situation is presumably that, in future, period buildings (particularly those being restored on a tight budget by individuals) won't be able to be fitted with faithful reproductions of their individual window styles - this will simply be beyond people's budgets. They'll just have to have the nearest approximation from the standard catalogue.

Or am I being alarmist?

 

[Flyfisher]

Or am I being alarmist?

I don't think so. Bespoke windows are expensive enough these days without all this extra nonsense. Unfortunately, those 'in charge' are busy saving the planet so who cares about a few period properties - cold, draughtly, planet-destroyers that they are. Something about having to break a few eggs to make an omelette?

 

[Flyfisher]

I fully intend to have whatever windows I want in my vaulted undercroft and am quite prepared to break all sorts of silly laws to get them. I don't believe anyone would know or care what I did up here anyway.

That's the spirit . . . . except . . . . don't let the cat out of the bag.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oops! :lol:

 

[FamilyWiggs]

don't let the cat out of the bag.

Because they'll trample in the omelette?

There comes a point when regululations become so cumbersome and insensitive that people ignore them where they can - and I'm with Joce here. I'll install the windows I want to, and won't tell the council when the time comes. Heck I even mean to make them myself (once I plucked up the courage to turn on the spindle moulder :shock: )

The worry is that craftsmen like Biff will be squeezed out of business as most people either reluctantly or unwittingly comply and pick an accredited window-type from a catalogue...

 

[Penners]

I suppose there could be one small advantage to all this. It's going to make me take meticulous care of the windows I've already got.

They're nothing special, but I can't help feeling that whatever replaced them would be worse.

 

[Joiner]

No, you're not being alarmist Penners. The crunch is in the last para of the link given here...

http://www.ggf.org.uk/ShowContent.aspx?ID=748

What has shocked me in all this is that NO ONE seems to have seen it coming. I had the consultation document last January and have read and re-read it a few times since to see what I (and others I discussed it with at the time) had missed. It contains nothing, not a hint of how profound the impact of the changes were likely to be EXCEPT a reference to the fact that consultation with the industry would, of course, take place. Two loaded words there: "consultation" and "industry". We're not considered "industry" so it's hardly surprising we weren't consulted. To the "industry" we simply don't exist. A mistaken perception, perhaps, but about to become a reality? And "consultation" has always been a joke.

Had I not been retiring at the end of this month I'd be seriously considering slashing my wrists. Some guys on other forums sound as if they've already decided to do so!

I'm writing to get the support of my local MP, who's so far proved supportive of rural industries (there's a phrase that carries some irony under the circumstances) and phoning my local Building Control to try and get to see the boss and discuss the wider ramifications with him, perhaps getting some idea of just how far they'll be pushing things. It's all academic for me, personally, but that doesn't mean I want to end my days travelling through townscapes destroyed by upvc and/or "Tudor-style mock sash windows made by craftsmen". And anyway, I'll have the time to follow through!

 

[christianb]

Like Joce, I think the simplest remedy is to completely ignore all barking-mad regulations and laws until the chinless wonders who make them get the message.

 

[AMc]

If sensible people simply ignore building regulations then the task of making MOST buildings more energy efficient and regulating building so that ALL buildings are safe becomes hopeless for the Building Control Inspectors - they're not police investigators they're a safety check on good practice working against regulation and law that they don't always agree with.

If you fancy putting new windows in you'll need to find a builder who doesn't mind that you don't have a building notice or approval of the plans. They'll have to be happy that their reputation will be dragged through the mud if they're discovered. How happy will you be that his/her calculations for the lintels or guesswork about the structural strength of the support in place will be adequate? Who will you blame if the house that has stood for years starts to crack because the wall above isn't adequately supported any more since you removed the bricked up support?

I believe that this regulation is being made with good intentions but is being very badly executed, having been framed by the lobby from the big businesses involved at the expense of the smaller competition. As it is essentially zero cost to the regulators then they're very happy to accept the change as a positive step in reducing carbon emissions.

The sensible thing to do in the face of such bad regulation is to attempt to change the regulation as Joiner is now doing.

Joiner - if there is anything we can sensibly do then please let us know? As this isn't my area of expertise if there is a petition or a standard form of letter you can post that I can send to my MP I'm happy to lend my support. Thanks for raising the issue and taking a stand.

 

[biffvernon]

Some guys on other forums...

Could you point to the most helpful forums you know of about this topic, please.

 

[christianb]

AMc,

This isn't about ignoring those regulations pertaining to the structural integrity of a building and, thus, the well-being of those within it. Please don't get the wrong impression.

This is about creating laws to protect people from, er, nothing whatsoever.

 

[Flyfisher]

It's a wonder that all our beloved period properties managed to get built and are still standing after hundreds of years without the benefit of modern structural analysis software, building regulations, BCOs and all the other bureaucratic and professional palarver associated with building anything these days.
And £1100 bat surveys . . . . just in case.