Matching architrave *PIC*

[Anonymous]

I want to put an architrave on a door that currently doesn't have one, and I want to match the profile in most of the rest of the house (1892 terrace). See piccie. I've searched DIY warehouses, t'internet, local salvage yards, and can't find a match. A timber yard quoted £120 just for setting up to mill the profile, which isn't worth it for one side of one door.

Any ideas anyone please?

Also any ideas on what this profile is called? The best I can come up with is 'beaded ogee'.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

It's ogee as you say, and that's been around a long time <IMG SRC="http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/discussing/smileys/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="">

I can hardly believe I'm admitting to this, but I found some similar at B&Q (yes, I know). In fact, they were an almost exact match for the architrave that had been installed in my 1830s house. Now I'm not saying the architrave was original, but judging by the many layers of paint (lead based) it was quite old - older than DIY sheds anyway.

I'm sure you've already looked at B&Q - just wondered if you found a similar profile but it was the wrong width?

I've examined the various alterations to my house in great detail, and some major work was done in the late 19th century - the matching architrave dates from then. I have a few doors with the original architrave, it is not ogee but a form of flush bead. I guess the Victorian renovators found it easier to use a 'standard' moulding too. For instance a door was replaced with a window to match the original sash. It is well made (no horns), although not exactly the same. The architraves match, and I reckon it's because the joiner replaced it on the original window. Bit of a cheat really.

My house is a mix and match now, but if I had just one doorway to do and as the perfectionist I am, I'd get a joinery company to make up a matching length of architrave.

btw - I've used ogee architrave to make up skirting, glueing it onto a plain board. It works a treat and matches the newer ogee skirting in my parlour. That did save me some money, especially as I only wanted a few feet of board.

I'm sure some of the other PPUK posters will have made their own mouldings for scratch and can post some tips for you.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Anonymous]

B&Q, Ogee Architrave
Just measured it:
2 and 1/4 inches wide (or 58 mm)

Hope you find something suitable.

 

[Anonymous]

£120 is a lot for setting up the profile - we've had this done at far less cost - about half that, in fact.

Once the machine is set up of course you can then have as much as you like run off, but that, I agree, is no help when all you require is a small amount.

It would be worth asking at another joinery place.

 

[Anonymous]

Beaded ogee sounds a fair description of it. Normal ogee (that you can buy anywhere) is similar, except for the rounded over bead on the left-hand end of your drawing.
If you can't find this in anyone's standard range, surely the cheapest solution would be to remove it from the top and the other side too, and then replace all three pieces with standard ogee.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't look at your pic closely enough!

I've actually got *3* types of architrave - some exactly like your beaded ogee, some old stuff like the B&Q variety with the flattened inner edge, and some triple flush mouldings (probably fitted originally in my house).

You've tried salvage yards and paint stripping firms haven't you? There was a firm near me in Yorkshire that stripped doors etc but also sold reclaimed mouldings. Maybe worth a try if you've got similar firms local to you.

Apologies for the confusion, of course the B&Q ogee is NOT suitable for your job.

 

[Anonymous]

Strictly speaking this is a Greek ogee with bead. What makes it Greek as opposed to Roman is the "quirk", or the deep, sharp incision between the flat outside part and the curved profile. (A Roman ogee would not have a quirk, just a step down, and a curve starting tangential to the flat surface).

Ogees with beads are not uncommon, but are less common than ogees with bevels. They would all have been made in the past by hand using moulding planes. A joiner whould have had a set of beading planes, sash bar planes and architrave moulding planes, plus also a set of round and hollow planes and other more general ones.

Replacing the architrave on one side of a door is a little tricky becasue you need to get a very good match with the existing profile if the mitre joint is to look right. It is far easier to replace the whole architrave, which is what many pofessional builders would do.

One possible solution is to buy a moulding with a close match and then modify it using a scratch stock. A scratch stock is a scraper filed to the right profile and held between two pieces of wood to enable it to be gripped better.

Scratch stocks dont really work well if they are wider than about and inch or so. If the ogee is nearly right, but you need to covert a bevel into a bead, or just make a small change to the curve, you can just make a scaper for just that part.

I have used this method successfully to modify mouldings run up for me by joiners which I did not find to be a good enough match with existing work.

 

[Anonymous]

Nigel - your knowledge of traditional joinery never ceases to amaze - and delight!

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Nigel, and everyone else. This forum provides such erudition! Your woodworking skills exceed mine by a very long way...

I should have made clearer that I want to put the architrave all the way around the inner side of the front door, not just one edge, so there's no problem with mitring up. I just want to match the architrave on the inner door (and most of the interior doors), so if you're standing in the porch you won't see two different profiles.

The front door is actually comparatively new, probably in the last 10 years - the porch would have been open originally. It has no architrave on the inside currently, and I want to hide the gap between frame and bricks. The profile on the outside is a slightly ugly plain curve. So maybe I'm being too pernickety and should just bung up some standard ogee to avoid accusations of pastiche!

 

[Anonymous]

I have done sokething similar to my front door and it has made a hell of a difference. I got the wood from builders merchant and the profile and size is very similar to my original door frames upstairs.

Unfortunately the previous owner of my house replaced the door frames and skirtings when a damp proof course was put in five years ago and have replaced it with a profile that is very similar to ones installed in 1930s houses - it does not match the beading on the door at all! I plan to replace them over the next year.