Making a symmetrical Georgian flower border

[Hatster]

Hang on Joce! Don't start chopping yet. Lets have a photo and a ground plan first.

Can you tell me what date you want your garden to be, and I'll see whether I can offer advice.

The Hatster may not know her rising damp from her elbow, but give her a bit of garden history to worry away at and she's in there like a shot!

 

[Hatster]

Here's some engravings of the Leasowes which was a wildly popular and influential garden in the mid-18th century.

http://www.search.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk/engine/resource/exhibition/standard/default.asp?txtKeywords=&lstContext=&lstResourceType=&lstExhibitionType=&chkPurchaseVisible=&txtDateFrom=&txtDateTo=&x1=&y1=&x2=&y2=&scale=&theme=&album=&viewpage=%2Fengine%2Fresource%2Fexhibition%2Fstandard%2Fchild.asp&originator=&page=&records=&direction=&pointer=&text=&resource=1345&offset=4

Here is a brief extract from the article:

8. Shenstone’s Embellishments to the Leasowes

Embellishments to the Leasowes are frequently reported to friends. The following few examples, from his Letters, are mostly to Lady Luxborough, and written between 1747 and 1749,

“I’ve made a great Improvement in Virgil’s Grove...& have finished a new Path from it to ye House.” (p.114)

“I send you ye Plans...for a Hermit’s Seat on a Bank above my Hermitage.” (p.197)

“My Gothick Building is now completed…The Ground about it is turfed;...a new Path is made to it...by...this Path is a little rock with a tree, yt I think is picturesque. The Floor of it is pav’d...with black and white Pebbles; & considering how hastily I collected & dispos’d them, has a pretty good Effect.” (p.207)

“I have made two little Islands in ye stream that runs thro Virgil’s Grove; The stream appears considerably larger, and the ground is mended.” (p.233)

“...also an Urn...And...small as it is, It has...a charming Effect, from ye situation I have given it...The Inscription I design for it.” (p.240)

Lady Luxborough is also informed of the conversion in Shenstone’s old house of a kitchen into a parlour. After giving structural details, including precise measurements, Shenstone writes:

“the other...Room...As you enter into this last, the Point of Clent-Hill appears visto-Fashion thro’ ye Door & one of ye windows. The same will be reflected in a Peer-glass at ye End of the former Room.” (p.179)

A ‘visto’ or ‘vista’ was a narrow, distant view (while a ‘prospect’ was a wide, extensive view). Attention to such minutiae can be seen as part of that most discriminating taste for which Shenstone was admired, and because of which the Leasowes came to be so much visited.

 

[Hatster]

Am I right in guessing that you don't really want a Georgian garden at all ? You're after a nice Arts and Crafts garden like Gareth's pics...

 

[JoceAndChris]

Dear Hatster,

I'm sorry for my tardy reply; I've been away. It was with great delight I read your posts- though Chris is less than pleased with you as I'm now jumping up and down demanding a hermitage and a stream. Also I'm ashamed to say I thought Gareth's pics showed what a Georgian garden looked like!

I would like a Georgian garden as far as possible, I'm afraid my computer skills are not yet up to a ground plan but Beacon Cottage is simply plonked in the middle of a large circle on top of a hill. The distance between the house and the perimeter is about 15 metres all the way round. On the north side of the circle is a wooded path that leads to about 2/3 of an acre which we want to have as a small smallholding.

The big decision is whether to chop down all the trees encircling the house obscuring the view (at the front that's a townscape you could really only say was pretty at night, at the sides and back it's fields). The Georgians who built it did not have these trees- the whole front section has a ha ha and I'm sure there would have been animals in the steeply sloping field below. I don't think we can restore the ha ha sadly as it will lead to too much loss of privacy- this field is now used by dogwalkers and drunks. The trees are lovely but block the amazing sunsets over the valley. So we talk about slowly reducing them, it's laurel, holly, ash, apple, orange blossom, lilac and laburnum. There are maybe 100- I'm too daunted to count.

Here is part of the south-west section and some of the sunset blockers

And here's how the western view currently looks.

Here's what it's typically like in the hedge:

And here's the troublesome unsymmetrical border I'd like to get started on redesigning.

My garden actually makes me want to cry there's so much to do. Anyway, thanks very much for all the ideas!

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Your 'troublesome' border only needs the lavendar, box, privet, low hedge, following the curve of the house and sweep down to the bird bath bit, keeping it lower just there, cos you probably need the light. Don't forget that you can shape your holly trees too.!!

 

[Hatster]

Don't forget that you can shape the holly tree too

Just what I was thinking too, Joce P! Also, I'd certianly keep that good climbing red rose you show, and train it a little more.

I've actually found an authentic Georgian plan for a town garden, but now I see the pictures, I think it's way too formal for your garden. I can send it to you via PM if you're interested, though (I got it via the University's subscription to journals so don't want to post it on the web). I can root around to see if I can find a Georgian advice manual on garden planting for farmers as well?

To some extent, your plantings can be much more exotic than you might imagine. Did you know the first yucca to flower in the UK flowered in the early C17, in Essex?

I think that your garden has great "capabilities", and is going to look stunning. I can't help thinking that in real life, your farming family would probably have something fairly simple and a little old fashioned. I have to admit that the gardens I've studied in the C18 / early C19 have been much posher than this style of farmhouse (it is a farmhouse isn't it?), but I have studied C17 gardens from the middling-sort of farmers, and can fish some of those plans out if you're interested. I also have some planting lists from one of Capability Brown's pleasure gardens, which might be useful.

BUT still, now I've seen your garden, I would actually go largely for a wonderful Arts and Crafts style garden somewhat in the style of Hidcote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8525214@N06/sets/72157612436885627/

These pics focus much more on the hedges but in fact Hidcote has the most stunning borders as well.

I think you could create something very good on those lines - it's a wonderful use of both views and privacy, as you cut holes in the hedges to show off the most fabulous views. I think that Johnson learnt very much from Capability Brown in his use of the view.

To be more Georgian, you could use your 2/3 acre as an 'American garden', which would be a collection of the plants that were coming in from the Americas. I can get planting lists for that too if you're interested...

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks so much for that you two, and all the encouragement. Hatster, I'd be really interested to receive your pearls of wisdom, suggested plants and schemes by PM, that's so kind of you!

No, the gardens here are nothing like what you find in a manor house but I'd like to make it as formal and graceful as possible within its limitations if that makes sense. It was a hunting lodge or folly, not a farmhouse. The farm belonging to the estate was in the next field but is no longer standing.

I love the idea of cutting out peepholes to reveal the view- thanks for that, and those pics of Hidcote are completely inspiring. I think some of the trees will lend themselves to topiary here, but how you would turn a 20 or 30 foot holly tree (and most of them are that height) into a topiaried shrub I don't know, but I intend to read more about it and find out.

As for the 2/3 of the acre, too late for it to be and "American garden" now- just returned from a very happy day in Norfolk, some of whose persuasive smallholders convinced me without too much difficulty that I need to start chicken farming, so have just ordered 4 blue Orpington hens + cock for starters. If anyone feels like Pm-ing me about pure breed chicken breeding that would also be very gratefully received- what have I done!!

 

[Schoolmarm]

:shock: best get reading quickly


http://www.downthelane.net/keeping-your-own-chickens-faqs.php

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Joce - sorry I didn't answer your message on another place, but no we don't have any chooks. Far too much work if you ask me - although we did keep a couple of turkeys a couple of years ago; keeping firmly to the old adage that " a turkey is for Christmas, not for life".

 

[Schoolmarm]

I fully agree with Robin and have steered clear of the smelly chooks wot the dogs roll in the poo of.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Not only that 'Marm, but you have to do something to chickens twice a day! Let them out/shut them up or some such nonsense.

Far too exhausting for me. I count the sheep and cows once a day (from the bedroom window whilst I'm dressing - who says men can't multi-task??!!), and worm/shear them when absolutely necessary. The rest I largely leave to nature.

Plus I have a wife with an irrational belief that we'd get bird-flu within a week (and she's a GP!)

 

[Schoolmarm]

:shock: Yes that is the other reason I don't want them. And that is twice a day, every day, all year

I do the the lazy sheep keeping technique too, my farmer friend thinks I am terrible, :roll:

 

[JoceAndChris]

Well you two have a lot else to do and other mouths to feed- I don't work and have been wanting to do this for a very long time...plus Chris will be able to help me with the Internet sales stuff. Pigs next.

Thanks for the link Schoolmarm, an interesting forum there too.

 

[Flyfisher]

Our hens are no real trouble but we did draw the line at having a cockerel waking us up at dawn so we're content with just producing eggs rather than new chickens. It's nice to have a few hens wandering around but there's little economic argument for home-produced food as far as I can tell.

Here's another angle on "self-sufficiency": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8119428.stm

 

[Moo]

Joce - the next time you're in Norfolk, do set aside a day to visit the Old Vicarage at East Ruston http://www.e-ruston-oldvicaragegardens.co.uk/. They have the most enchanting gardens (with cunning peepholes to provide views of local landmarks like the Happisburgh lighthouse) and serve lovely tea and home-made cakes.
The gardens are huge, but have grown gradually, so consist of a lot of 'rooms' of various sizes to provide ideas and inspiration - and they sell of surplus plants, too.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Pigs next..

I'm with you there Joce - WiggsPigs is my dream... think I have missed the boat this year, but intend to get half a dozen GOS weaners next Spring.

On poultry, I have always fancied some geese. They graze and keep the lawn down, act as a good burglar alarm, and provide plenty of meat. I think I could muster up the energy to sut those up at night... Anybody know if they are just as vicious to the hands that feed them?

 

[Moo]

Geese also do lots of large poos.

 

[Moo]

sorry - inadvertent double post.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

I doubt as large as the peacocks/hens we used to have - big as a dog's and make a really ugly noise too! :roll:

 

[Schoolmarm]

I didn't know poo could make a noise..........