Linseed Oil Paint Novice

[thiambal]

Hi,

I plany to buy a new front door soone to replace the horrible 1980's affair which we currently have. I have found a company which will supply a pine door in a very similar style to the few originals still present on the street, made from reclaimed pine.

I would like to try and use linseed oil paint on it. But here is the dilemma.

I understand that linseed oils paint can take some time to dry. So If I hang the door first and then paint the finish will be spoilt by the inevitable sticking of the new paint to the frame when shut.

However, if I paint first and then hang the door will inevitable have to be planed and the locks cut in which will also damage the paint finish.

What is the best way to approach this. Over to you guys......

 

[biffvernon]

At this time of year I would paint the door indoors. You can always touch up the odd bits later. In the summer I would do the door outdoors.

 

[thiambal]

I can wait a few months to paint the door with whatever the best conditions are. The real dilemma is whether to do it before or after hanging. Will the long drying time of the paint cause a problem when the door needs to be shut at night at least.

Also the manufactures state that the door must be sealed as soon as bought to prevent warping etc. I assume that a coat of warm linseed oil would do the trick?

 

[Ian Bond]

I've got the same problem with sash windows - can't leave em open or I'd be coming home to an empty(er) house!!!

Holkham suggested making a temporary glazed frame to be secured infront of the window openings.

For the doors, it's just the edges where they touch the frame that will get marked. The linseed paint takes so long to dry that you shouldn't be in much danger of having your door stuck fast if you open it regularly. Maybe the paint at the margin of the door will be less than perfect, but it won't be on show for most of the time.

 

[biffvernon]

Linseed paint will dry, if slowly, in winter. It is important to put as thin a coat as possible on. Four thin coats are better than three thicker coats.

Ignore the man who talked of sealing the wood. The whole point of linseed paint is the the wood is not sealed. You do need to coat with linseed oil before painting but that has got nothing to do with sealing. If you don't do this and paint straight on to the bare wood, the wood may absorb oil from the paint, leaving the paint film too pigment rich and depleted in binder. It won't be as durable. Make sure that the oil coat is very thoroughly dry before the first coat of paint goes on. Leave it a week.

 

[worms]

Picking up from where Biff left off, I wondered if the solution to this sort of situation was to simply use linseed oil as the coating until the weather is more suitable for applying the paint?

 

[biffvernon]

Yes, that may well be the best idea.

There is a school of thought that says the paint will attach more firmly after the weather has got to the wood and the surface has opened up a bit.

And then when the weather warms up they'll be the suicidal flies to contend with

 

[Ian Bond]

I did some painting about 10 days ago to a window -dozens of little flies got stuck to it. I was surprised - I didn't have as bad a problem in summer.

You can't really be taking windows out and doors off for days/weeks at a time just to paint them, surely?

I've decided to be less of a perfectionist about marks and smudges where the sashes/door meet the frame - noones going to see them anyway. As long as I remember to open the doors and windows every so often to stop them sticking fast it should be OK.

And the flies brush off when the paints dry.

 

[Lime]

At this time of year oil gloss takes a long time to dry.
I'd compromise and paint the door with primer and undercoat (which dry much more quickly) before hanging and paint with gloss at a later date.
If that is several months then rubbing down and another coat of undercoat would be in order.

 

[thiambal]

Cheers for all the ideas.

Biff, they have been pretty adament that the door must be sealed/painted on all edges immediately on delivery to prevent warping (They guarentee is based on it).

My knowledge of the physics of wood is limited. What is likely to happen in terms of warping if the door is oiled? The doors are made from oold reclaimed timber to hopefully it will be very well seasoned.

I quite like the idea of just oiling the door and hanging it and letting it be for a few months before painting.

 

[biffvernon]

If you paint it with primer and undercoat (that'll not be linseed oil paint then) and evetually with top coat gloss you will have a nice shiny door that is all sealed up in its plastic bag. Eventually the differential movement of paint and timber will cause little crack through which moisture will enter. But it will not get out again before raising the moisture content of the timber to the level at which moulds can grow. Then the paint will flake off the rotten door and you will buy a new one. That is the way of so much external joinery since linseed oil paint was abandoned. So much so that wood has got itself an undeserved bad name and plastic has taken over. The paint was the true villain in the piece.

I would tear up the guarantee, paint the door now with a coat of the best linseed oil and hang it. In a week or two I would give it another coat of linseed oil. In the spring I would paint it with four coats of linseed oil paint but I would leave the underneath edge unpainted. You can't see it. Your paint-brush can't reach it. And you are not wanting to seal the door.

 

[piper]

Right - to hi-jack this thread a little, though it's still very much on topic:
The architect's specification for our new extension says - "decoration will be undertaken by the clients but all exterior woodwork to have one coat of clear preservative".
If we want to paint it, and decide to go for linseed oil paint, do we tell them to leave off the preservative? Mentioned this possibility to the architect and he wasn't sure, but said the preservative would be "microporous".
Can the linseed experts please advise? From everything that has been said, my feeling is that the preservative would very much NOT be required.

 

[Nemesis]

Couldn't linseed oil be regarded as a clear preservative?

http://www.holkham.co.uk/linseedpaints/o_rawlinseedoil.html

 

[Lime]

If you paint it with primer and undercoat (that'll not be linseed oil paint then) and evetually with top coat gloss you will have a nice shiny door that is all sealed up in its plastic bag. Eventually the differential movement of paint and timber will cause little crack through which moisture will enter. But it will not get out again before raising the moisture content of the timber to the level at which moulds can grow. Then the paint will flake off the rotten door and you will buy a new one. That is the way of so much external joinery since linseed oil paint was abandoned. So much so that wood has got itself an undeserved bad name and plastic has taken over. The paint was the true villain in the piece.

all the primers and undercoats I use are linseed oil paints.

 

[Nemesis]

What make are they?

Holkham uses simply oil and the pigment.

 

[Lime]

What make are they?

Holkham uses simply oil and the pigment.

Why the third degree?

Doesn't anyone remember how paints used to be?

Farrow and Ball for your information, all linseed oil based paints and used by the National Trust.

 

[biffvernon]

I think Nemesis is on to something, Lime.

Formulation: A low odour solvent solution of inorganic pigments in the finest oil based alkyd resin.

F & B make some nice coloured paints with mineral pigments but they do not make real linseed oil paint. This is a very different animal. And the National Trust have dropped their association with F & B that did so much for them a few years ago. I've nothing against them and some of their paints are excellent for some purposes. I bought a litre of their water based eggshell No. 2005 last Tuesday. It's sits in front of me now and will be used later today. But I don't use F & B on external joinery.

The architect's specification for our new extension says - "decoration will be undertaken by the clients but all exterior woodwork to have one coat of clear preservative".
If we want to paint it, and decide to go for linseed oil paint, do we tell them to leave off the preservative? Mentioned this possibility to the architect and he wasn't sure, but said the preservative would be "microporous".
Can the linseed experts please advise? From everything that has been said, my feeling is that the preservative would very much NOT be required.

It's a pity that the architect specified poison rather than decent timber. He should have said that the exterior joinery should be from European Oak, or, as a less good alternative, a moderately durable softwood such as larch, Douglas fir or a tight grained Scott's pine. The application of 'preservative' would then not be required so long as linseed oil paints is used. Falun Red should be considered.

The common practice in the construction industry is to use non-durable wood, soak it in poisons, seal it in low vapour-permeable paint, watch it rot over thirty years and replace with PVC having given up on timber as a bad job.

 

[Nemesis]

The National Trust commercial involvement with F and B (which as you say is now dropped) was the development of colours, some of which were traditional but some were modern interpretations of colours found in NT houses.

Not sure that the NT use them now though. F and B used to be a small trad paint company, not a global brand.

For some things I like F and B too but the oil based stuff isn't trad paint as Peter Maitland-Hood would have described it.

 

[Juju]

What would people recommend though if it's not practical to strip all the paint off external windows?

I would love to use linseed oil paint on my ancient windows (and I love the sage green colour which would look great on our windows) but if I'm paying someone to do the upstairs windows (cos I'm scared of heights and clumsy partner has already had one broken leg) then not sure I can afford or persuade a decorator to strip off all the paint. I would have used F & B but wanted something more environmentally friendly and that will last a few years.

 

[piper]

It's a pity that the architect specified poison rather than decent timber. He should have said that the exterior joinery should be from European Oak, or, as a less good alternative, a moderately durable softwood such as larch, Douglas fir or a tight grained Scott's pine. The application of 'preservative' would then not be required so long as linseed oil paints is used. Falun Red should be considered.

The common practice in the construction industry is to use non-durable wood, soak it in poisons, seal it in low vapour-permeable paint, watch it rot over thirty years and replace with PVC having given up on timber as a bad job.

Biff, I respect your views greatly, and your work is superb, however I think you have gone a bit far here.
The is NO WAY the builder we will probably use countenances UPVC windows. The owner of this long-established family business has fulminated against them to me before on several occasions, and himself would always recommend oak where funds allow, and where funds don't allow he urges good quality softwood regularly maintained - and, yes, their work around here does feature very good quality joinery but "treated".
The plans include a real sliding sash at the front of the extension, but a very large floor to ceiling window at the back, south-facing, elevation complete with low-e glass. It also specifies lime render inside and out, and will be expensive enough without doing all the joinery in oak, and of course the rest of the house is all painted softwood.
Incidentally, the architect recently went on a lime course at Womersley's, and I keep feeding him green building links. However, in the real world we regretably have to make compromises, as I'm sure you reflect on yourself whenever you drive to far-flung clients, or visit windows in Cumbria. :wink:
and by the way, I didn't know Mr Scott made pine, I thought it came from Scotland