Lime Plasterers - An endangered species!

[Scott C]

Does anyone know a lime plasterer in the Gatwick area? (Surrey/Sussex boarder).

My basement conversion has come to a standstill for the past 4 months as my usual lime plasterer has been (and still is) tied up on a big contract. I have only got as far as the electrical first fit so still plenty to do. I need to get things moving again.

I have exhausted all my usual contact sources. It seems lime plasterers should be put on the endangered species list - at least in my area. I'm thinking of changing careers.

Can anyone help? I can't be the only lime lover in Surrey (or Sussex).

Scott

 

[BMcD]

Try this site's search for associates

http://www.plaistererslivery.co.uk/...ngtradesupport&subpage=plasteringtradesupport

 

[Scott C]

Thanks for the link BMcD. I'll try the closest ones this week to see if they will travel.

Other recommendations still welcome.

Scott

 

[stickybeak]

.

 

[Nemesis]

The website didn't inspire confidence though:

Remmers – leading the way from cellar to roof since 1949...

Waterproofing
Damp-proofing
Stone Cleaning and Restoration
Concrete Repair and Protection
Timber Treatments
Floor Coatings

 

[Gareth Hughes]

http://www.remmers.co.uk/adverts/heritage/

p.15 "Restoration and waterproofing of brickwork in old buildings...penetrating protection due to presealing silicification...the most modern fast-setting mortar systems..."

p.17 "waterprrofing protection and driving rain resistance - water repellence - are the mains requirements on facades...facade protection systems include mineral, acrylic and silicone resin coatings..."

WTF? :shock:

 

[Nemesis]

I read their PDF about how they are experts in conservation.

It's not conservation as we know it, Jim. Beam me up...

 

[Gervase]

Not cheap, either - their lime mortar is about £40 a tonne more than most places.
Of course, their 'restoration mortar' - made with cement - is cheaper!

 

[Flyfisher]

While not wishing to denigrate anyone's plastering skills (since mine are almost non-existent!), I'm not sure I understand why lime plasterers should be an endangered species. I appreciate that most plasterers might work with gypsum these days, but can't 'normal' plasterers work with lime plaster if requested? Surely the skill is in applying the plaster, not in mixing it? From everything I've read, lime plaster is easier to work with due to the fact that it doesn't go off in 20 minutes!

 

[Nemesis]

Yes they should be able to change with a small amount of retraining, although it does require some knowledge of the different properties of lime. However, many can make their cash with slapping on gypsum and departing rapidly to the next job, so that's what they do.

 

[Gervase]

It is bizarre, but most modern plasterers seem to regard limework as some sort of voodoo. I've worked with a few who think I'm taking my life in my hands just touching the stuff - "There's no way I'd work with lime; it's too dangerous!" being a common view.
And, more importantly, most jobs these days are done on price, and a good spread can pull in £400 a day even here in the cuds - bish bosh, skim away, that's a whole room done and off to the next job with nary a whistle behind.
Also, if truth be known, most 'plasterers' are actually skimmers; probably 90 per cent of their work is done with skim over plasterboard. A proper, time served plaster should be more than capable of three-coat lime work, but a skimmer will run a mile.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks; that seems to confirm my (amateur) understanding that lime plastering, per se, is not some arcane black art. I can also see the attraction of the 'skim and run' approach as a way of making a living.

I guess it's easier (and safer?) for a 'modern' plasterer to stick with what they know rather than try something new, unless there is a significant permium in it for them.

 

[BMcD]

The basic principles of plastering are the same whether you use lime or gypsum the only difference is the timing and the working, lime needs longer between coats and more working and the finish coat needs scouring with a float before troweling up but that's it really.
However Gervase is right about plasterers only being able to skim, this is down to these courses which are springing up every where conning people into thinking they can learn to be a tradesman in 5 days when in reality it takes 5 years and even after 20+ you're still learning. Although there are some good proper collages still turning out fine tradesmen/women but they seem to be fighting a loosing battle against the churn 'em out brigade with the general public being the loosers

 

[BMcD]

Gervase wrote:

Of course, their 'restoration mortar' - made with cement - ...

I don't think this is the case as its called "Restoration Mortar CF" with the CF standing for cement free

From Tech Info:

Funcosil®
RESTORATION MORTAR
CEMENT FREE
Ready-to-use, factory-mixed, dry mortar. Binder and aggregates on a pure mineral base.
Binder base: natural, eminently hydraulic lime (NHL) and hydrated lime according to DIN
1060

Link to tech info pdf

http://www.remmers.co.uk/doc/tm/TM1_0585_EN.pdf

 

[Nemesis]

I've read through a great deal of the info on PDF's on the site and found it worrying.

I would only urge huge caution before carrying out the sort of 'conservation' shown, and coating historic buildings with some of the materials used.

 

[BMcD]

I was only correcting out an oversight by Gervase where he's presumably misread the spec. I'm not advocating their methods

 

[Gervase]

I was only correcting out an oversight by Gervase where he's presumably misread the spec. I'm not advocating their methods

Mea culpa: I read the general spec on the site rather than the PDF, which described it as a "1 component cementitious prebagged repair mortar. Modified version of Funcosil Restoration Mortar for use on weaker stone substrates."

 

[Nemesis]

It all sounds very worrying indeed.

The site pictures show, in my opinion (I'm being careful here...) over restored buildings using methods and pseudo-scientific sounding materials which I think in the long term may not prove to be the wonder cures claimed.

 

[BMcD]

Getting back to the "Endangered Species" of the thread,

Flyfisher Wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why lime plasterers should be an endangered species.

It may be that the main reason for this is the fact that the vast majority of home owners including period property owners don't care and don't want their walls plastered in lime even when the benefits are pointed out to them, they'll just turn round and say "look mate all I want to do is have then dry lined and then paint them magnolia. I can't be doing with all that faffing around".
So if the demand is not there then neither is the supply.

 

[Flyfisher]

Isn't it a bit like a painter refusing to paint anything red (for example). It doesn't mean painters no longer have the skills to use red paint, it's just that they don't want to (or maybe no one ever asks them).

But I take the point that it makes little difference in practice whether they can or can't work with lime if they just won't.