ledged doors

[borischarlton]

Morning,

I am in the process of removing the glazed 70's doors from our hallway that lead to our downstairs bathroom and lounge. It is an old farm workers cottage so I am wanting something in keeping and am making ledged doors from reclaimed pine. I have heard that they were put together using rosehead nails that were driven through the wood and "clenched over". Does anyone have an explanation of this and even better a picture? I have tried google but am struggling for a good picture.
Many Thanks
Rob

 

[biffvernon]

No good asking me to make a door for you because I only use oak. But I do use clenched nails. Rosehead nails are squarish in section and made of a steel that can be bent without breaking. You choose a nail that is longer than the thickness of plank and ledge by half an inch or so, bang the nail right home so the pointy end protrudes and then knock said pointy end sideways and with a deft angling of the hammer the sharp point gets turned back into the wood. The plank and ledge will henceforth never part company. Dead as a doornail, the nail can never pull loose.

If you change your mind about the pine...

 

[borischarlton]

Thanks biff, I thought as much. I really want to see a picture!!
If I thought that oak would be fitting that is what I would use but it would be far to "posh" in my humble shack!!
Thanks
Rob

 

[biffvernon]

Look at this page for a good variety of shapes and sizes. Get a couple of old planks to practice on first till you get the hang of it - then make yourself a door. It's carpentry, not rocket science.

 

[Penners]

Here's a (not very good) photo of some old, clenched nails.

I always start the clenching process by hammering the protruding end of the nail over a thin steel rod, so that it's curved. Then when you remove the rod and hammer the curved pointy end back against the door, the point re-buries itself in the wood, rather than lying flat on its surface. It takes a bit of practice, but makes a neater, safer job.

By the way, always try to ensure that, when you're clenching, the head end of the nail is resting on something really solid - metal or stone are best. This prevents any risk of the nail being pushed back through the door in the process.

 

[chuckey]

Just to repeat Penners point, I use a club hammer under the nail head, when bending over the pointy end. I think its best to lay the bended bit over at 45 degrees to the grain, if down the grain,, the nail bends inside the wood, if across the grain, some times the wood is too hard for the nail to be bent flush, hence the compromise. Best to do some tests on a sample of the wood. Also the nail will rust in time making some very odd marks!
Frank

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Here's a picture of a ledged door made in the manner you describe, albeit in oak. Rosehead nails about 20mm longer than the combined thickness of the plank and ledge were driven through pre-drilled holes. A heavy weight was held against the head of each nail whilst the tail was bent round and hammered down (clenched) onto the ledge. This really does provide a secure fastening, and is pretty easily achieved with a little practice.

You can see more pics of these doors on my website.

 

[Jon Maine]

When we clenched our nails over we held the club hammer as described against the head, we used 75mm nails on a 42mm ledge/plank thickness, bent the last 10mm over with pliers, knocked it sideways with the hammer, when it touched the ledge we knocked it back, piloted a hole before hammering it in solidly so the bent section clenched into the back of the ledge. We have fixed hundreds of nails on around 25 ledge doors and 7 cross planked with good results.( the cross planked have around 150 + nails in.

 

[MdB]

I've just purchased some rosehead nails from the PPUK shop to put my first door together. A quick questions for the experts if I may: How big do you predrill the holes for the nails? I assume it probably doesn't matter too much but as the nails are tapered I'm not sure what is ideal.

 

[Jon Maine]

Yes we pre-drilled just a tad under the size of the nail at the point it sticks out the door if that makes sense, dont forget to hold a lump hammer or such like against the head when clenching or it will travel back out.

I would practice on a few bits of scrap first.

 

[Schoolmarm]

I've just purchased some rosehead nails from the PPUK shop to put my first door together. A quick questions for the experts if I may: How big do you predrill the holes for the nails? I assume it probably doesn't matter too much but as the nails are tapered I'm not sure what is ideal.

Please can we see a picture when it is done? Or even a few, part way done?

 

[MdB]

Not fixed together in any way. The grooves are due to it being made out of floorboards. I believe they are put in to help it stop warping. I'll post some more pics once I've put it together.

 

[Jon Maine]

The grooves are for "under-relief" of flooring to help stop the boards from cupping. Is that face inside a cupboard or will you be looking at it? The grooves are not necessary for doors really and you may find them a bit ugly.

Here is a typical door we have done, the hinges are also clench nailed.

View attachment 2View attachment 1

 

[Schoolmarm]

Thanks both of you.

Won't the full width ledges stop the door from closing or will they be shortened after joining it all together?

 

[Jon Maine]

My doors all close into rebated frames as they are actually fire doors, this means we have stopped the ledges an inch or so back from the outside edge of the door.

Other doors may be hung in a lining with just a thin doorstop so may not need so much clearance.

Of course some doors will have their flush face closing into the frame and therefore could have full width ledges.

We just went for around 30mm back on all of ours so there is a common theme.

 

[MdB]

The grooves are for "under-relief" of flooring to help stop the boards from cupping. Is that face inside a cupboard or will you be looking at it? The grooves are not necessary for doors really and you may find them a bit ugly.

The grooves mean that the wood is cheap (£45 per door) and will be fine for the rooms they will be going into. Not quite as high status as your place....

(B&Q are doing oak doors for £28 at the moment. Don't look as nice though )

 

[Jon Maine]

I paid a similar amount to that for mine, Sean at Quality Oak 01823698090 near Taunton is very reasonable, although easier for me to get to than for you. That would be one of those things that nagged me forever.

 

[MdB]

I paid a similar amount to that for mine, Sean at Quality Oak 01823698090 near Taunton is very reasonable, although easier for me to get to than for you. That would be one of those things that nagged me forever.

Thanks for the contact that's useful to know. I couldn't find anybody doing normal oak planks at anywhere near to that price.

I'm not worried at all about the grooves. It adds interest to the door and as most of the house is modern it doesn't have to be historically accurate in any way. To be honest, I quite like the idea that there is unlikely to be any other doors quite like it anywhere.

 

[Schoolmarm]

(B&Q are doing oak doors for £28 at the moment. Don't look as nice though )

ledged ones?

 

[MdB]

(B&Q are doing oak doors for £28 at the moment. Don't look as nice though )

ledged ones?

No, cheap looking internal panel(?) door with the frame made from solid oak. Not my sort of thing.