Ledge Door

[thiambal]

Now everyone please sit down, take a deep breath and read the whole post before casting me to the burning fires of damnation!

The original access to our understair storage is through a ledge door in the kitchen, at some point this has been partitioned off and tured into a larder - A further access to the under stairs being added in the dining room.

The new door is a very rough temporary affair (probably temporary 50 years ago and never attended to). I have acquired the ledge door from the house next door and want to use this replace the rough old door in the dining room.

This will require reducing it by one plank in width and cutting it down to 2/3rds the size. My question is this...... is there an easy technique to lever the ledges off so that they can be repositioned? (eyes in your direction Biff). And what fixings to use to re-attach them.

I have resisted the temptation to go at it with a hammer and a chisel until I know how to do it with the minimum of damage.

Now I can hear howls of protest about destroying the old door! In my defence, one end of the door (the portion to be removed) is very badly damaged and has been hacked about at - it is also riddled with woodworm holes. The door when I rescued it has been ripped off by the kitchen fitters and was being used across two saw horse as a work bench and was about to be attacked with a circlular saw!

So, if I am excused?? Any ideas how to tackle the ledges?

 

[Nemesis]

I'm interested in how you acquired it from next door... breaking and entering?

 

[thiambal]

Not quite!

I spotted it in next door's garden laying across 2 saw horses. It had been left out over the weekend and through torrential rain. On the monday morning I saw the kitchen fitter about to use a circular saw on it and asked him what he intended to do with the door. He obliged by promising not to damage it any further and then threw it over into my back garden.

Shame it is so badly damaged, cannot really ever be used as a full door again but would do me nicely cut down. - Now just the question of getting those ledges off!

Will we are on the subject of next door's ktichen refit, they have solved the problem of damp walls by lining the room with plasterboard - but not before coating the walls with some black bitumous looking paint. We did not have damp in our adjoining kitchen - but I have a nasty feeling it may be on the way!

 

[Nemesis]

Oh eck - why do people use the stuff? It's about impossible to remove in future...

 

[thiambal]

It was used by the same chap who.....

1. Is using expanding foam extensively
2. Ripped a 100+ year old door off it's hinges and left it out in the rain
3. Told me I will not have problem with damp because my house has been recently painted with Weathershield (by previous owner)

....so no wonder really.

Now, about those ledges.....

 

[Gervase]

The ledges may have been nailed on from the plank side, with the ends clinched over. in which case you'l have to prise out and unlinch the points before pushing them back through with a punch, drift, pin sinker or summat. Just pray it isn't also glued - though sometimes the planks were painted before the ledges were put on, and that can be a pretty effective adhesive.
Good luck!

 

[biffvernon]

It can be quite difficult to get old nails out. If they are cut nails rather than wire nails, the sharp edges grip the timber better. And after a century of rusting the bond between nail and wood may be even stronger.

 

[thiambal]

Oh christ, this is not going to be easy then!

What is the best thing to re-attach them with?

 

[Nemesis]

Easy? Easy?? It's not meant to be easy, this period property lark - character building, good for your soul... but who said it was easy?

 

[biffvernon]

What is the best thing to re-attach them with?

New rosehead cut nails, clinched.

 

[thiambal]

Clinching being??? - banging the pointy end over?

Is there anything more to the technique than hitting the ends with a hammer?

 

[biffvernon]

It has to be the right sort of nail. When buying roseheads specify 'for clinching'. Some types just snap in half instead of bending! Some are steel, cut from a sheet and it matters if the sheet was cut whilst still hot, some are wrought iron (expensive) and again it depends on annealing and working temperatures and direction of 'grain'.

(I'm not entirely sure that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the dwarvish crafts.)

 

[Nemesis]

All our doors of similar type and vintage have simple nails with the heads driven in flush, from the planked side.

No sign of the pointy end anywhere. Turned over and buried too.

Rose headed nails at four corners of the horizontal part - byt also driven in.

When painted, none would be visible, if a spot of filler smeared over (putty?)

 

[thiambal]

oh blimey, who'd have thought that nails could be so complicated.

As for clinching - do you just hammer the things through, turn the piece over and hammer over the pointy end - or do you need to hammer the nail through onto some hard surface so that the nail is bent over as you are going - is so what do you use?

 

[Nemesis]

Oooh - that's too technical for me, I'm the arty farty type...
no sign of the door having been hit with a hammer though, and the ends are buried in such a way they look like staples...

I'd use wood screws meself, countersunk and painted over!

 

[thiambal]

Ohh, wood screws are starting to look tempting!! but I am trying hard to be a purist!

 

[Nemesis]

Pure brass.

 

[GK]

When I made a batch of oak doors I assembled the planks and rails out over a piece of Ever SO Useful Kingspan so that I could nail right through the whole lot (after piloting the holes).

Then turn over, bash the sticking out nails over with the hammer, drive below surface with a nail punch.

I used deco nails from Old House Store - not actually rose heads but whose checking? Any they don't bust off as you bend them.

I only did one door like this. I don't like the bent over nail appearance. Other 11 got nailed from both sides with shorter nails.

 

[Nemesis]

The door I am looking at is stripped and unpainted (sloth...) but it's pine and obviously the nails were meant to be concealed when painted.

 

[thiambal]

If you nailed them together with shorter nails so they did not come through - would this not just end up with the nails coming loose over time?