LBC & wet, wet, wet

[Pford75]

Some of you may recall my posts earlier in the year regarding a large tree which was blown down in the storms onto a flint wall around our garden.

After much to-ing and fro-ing with insurers, structural engineers & surveyors we have finally submitted our application for LBC. My major worry now is the length of time the application could take (up to 8 weeks according to the council)...which with the insurers track record and the builders lead times, could leave us cutting it very fine for fitting it in before the 'Summer weather' (assuming we get some) runs out. Any thoughts on how late we could leave it to start a projected 12-14 week build project?

Also...the tender process was managed by the surveyors and there was quite a range in quotes....£92k, £80k, £72k!! The most expensive do nothing but flintwork. The others are general builders specialising in historic building. The wall (assuming it gets approval) will be apx. 6ft high..brick quoins with flint infill. The flint is random pattern, whole flint. My current thinking is that any builder (with experience of working with lime) should be able to biuld something like this....am I mad? £20k is a big difference!

 

[Nemesis]

Have you asked each contractor if you can see a sample of similar work?

It's more frost than wet you need to be worried about...

 

[Pford75]

The surveyors have references which were all good...but I haven't seen their work...although to be honest...it's not something which I can easily fit into my schedule.

Agree on the frost point.....part of my thinking was that we can get frost as early as October....which really means I need to start by beginning of July doesn't it?

Given that LBC might take until August....feels like i'm chancing it....but don't want to wait until next year to make the claim with the insurers...

 

[Nemesis]

Ask for photos and refs then which you can check with house owners by telephone...

A bit of early frost might be OK, but it's pushing it much later yes.

 

[andrew gayton]

If you have been advised that 'principle' of works are ok, then discuss an 'at risk' start prior to formal approval with the c.o - should be straightforward. as for the work itself, very very few builders are capable in my opinion of doing decent flintwork............ you pays your money and takes your .................................. as nem says, beware the frost as flint is highly dependant on the mortar due to lack of bonding........... no work from early august to give it a good chance (assuming that is that you are not using hydraulic.)

 

[Pford75]

Have taken Andrew's advice and scheduled a site meeting with my CO

Also spoke with the loss adjusters and explained the challenges around lead times etc. They are in the process of approving the costs with the insurers, so that, subject to a positive site meeting...we should be ready to go with minimal delay.

Here's hoping.

 

[Nemesis]

Your CO may be able to 'indicate' which contractors are fine and which aren't too...

 

[andrew gayton]

One important thing to continue to bear in mind - very obvious but easy to lose sight of in the desire to get the work in hand (aside from insurance/loss adjusters/l.b.c/process/process/process) - is the QUALITY of the work.... most emphasis will be on 'cost' at the front end for obvious reasons, but you/the house/the environs will have to live with the work for potentially 100yrs + (not withstanding external factors) so do get photos, look at other work they have done and most importantly get a 1m2 sample panel erected on the site for approval before the work starts - this will give both you and the c.o a point of reference for quality control. you cannot argue with a previously approved sample of work.

 

[Nemesis]

Totally agree with Andrew - once work starts is too late to have to tell the contractors you are not happy with what is happening!

Many talk the talk but...

A little delay and a little more expense in the short term could avert something worse...

And get samples of brick checked too.

 

[Pford75]

Thanks for the advice - we have already asked for a sample of the bricks & coping to be provided. We're aiming to have these available for the site visit, but as a minimum realise we'll need these before LBC is formally approved.

Will see if I can get to a reference site of their previous work. The surveyors have used them for listed building work before on many occasions, so this is a good first step. One of the contractors also undertook some previous work for us (rebuilding of a brick pier) and the quality was very good.

Rest assured, our focus is on getting the job done right...but at the same time, we can't wait more than a year for a garden wall to be rebuilt...can't let my kids out in the garden by themselves at the moment!

 

[Mark]

The surveyors have references which were all good...but I haven't seen their work...although to be honest...it's not something which I can easily fit into my schedule.

I wish I could afford to spend £80K or so without having time to check the product. What would it take ? 3 days max ?

 

[Pford75]

I wish I could afford to spend £80K or so without having time to check the product. What would it take ? 3 days max ?

Probably....but not all of us work a 9 to 5 in the UK.

I'm overseas for from today for 1.5 weeks...back for 2 days for a meeting with my CO...in between working...then overseas again for 2 weeks....besides....as I said, whilst I haven't 'seen' the product...I have employed highly reputable surveyors who have worked with the contractors before and recommend them.

I understand that for some people on the forum, their house/project is a full time job or they work in a trade closely associated...but for some of us....we have to earn the pennies to pay for the work.....It's a much better use of my time to work and pay the money for an expert, than to do it myself....sad...but true.

 

[Nemesis]

Out of interest - what sort of coping is it?

 

[Pford75]

Coping is black-glazed. Comes in 3 parts....2 'wedges' with flat tops and then a 'flat triangle' which sits on top of the two wedges....to provide a short of 2-tier pyramid thingy. (sorry for the description)

It must be a relatively popular local material (although can't see any on walls in the village) as one of the local salvage yards has enough identical items.

 

[Nemesis]

Thought this might be of interest...

http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=2578

 

[andrew gayton]

two plinth stretchers and a saddleback.

 

[Nemesis]

I had a moment there when I thought you really had imbibed too much over the weekend A - but I now realise you are talking about the copings!

 

[andrew gayton]

thats why they gave me such a funny look at last orders last night.......

 

[Pford75]

two plinth stretchers and a saddleback

I'm sure my neighbour has a couple of saddlebacks roaming in his fields...although I'm not sure the wall would take their weight...or that they would make for attractive coping.

Seriously...thanks for the 'technical' input and the links. My SPAB technical pamphlet on flint repairs arrived at the weekend, so I feel 'well armed' enough to quiz contractors once we have LBC.

The wall runs alongside the highway (we have been exploring permission to close one lane with the higways people)...there is also a public footpath (which is the the only one....no footpath on other side of road)...do you think that shuttering might be a good idea? As much to provide some protection for the footpath as anything else?

 

[Nemesis]

To add:

http://www.chilternsaonb.org/downloads/Adopted_Flint_Note.pdf


http://www.spab.org.uk/html/advice/technical-qas/technical-qa-3-historic-flintwork/?PHPSESSID=4f99b9a1d8199b35bb0ad80b7676bfbf