Late georgian or victorian bricks...

[MattW]

I had the conservation officer round today to discuss our plans for renovating the grade II listed georgian town house. As a whole it was a very constructive visit and she took a very helpful and pragmatic view to what I am looking to do. However there is one open point relating to whether the rear below ground vault that opens into the rear basement lightwell is original or a later addition, and hence what we can do with it.

After the meeting I took a much closer look at the bricks the rear vault is made - the ceiling & walls are all made of 8.5" long bricks (or halves) whereas the rest of the house (and the whole terrace for that matter), the front coal vaults and the garden walls are all made of 9" long bricks. Equally the colours between the two types are slightly different. They are all 2.5" high. The main house was built in 1827-1830. The ground it was built was previously fields, so it is very unlikely that hte rear vault predates the house.

Do you think that the different in brick sizes is strong evidence that the rear vault is a later addition? Is there anyway I can accurately date them?

Thanks for any help you might give.

Matt

 

[Flyfisher]

I'm no expert but I've always thought the height of the brick is a better indicator of age, with thinner (than modern) bricks suggesting greater age, although I've no idea if this can accurately date brickwork.

Wikipedia sort of backs this up (although that alone is hardly definitive):

In England, the length and the width of the common brick has remained fairly constant over the centuries, but the depth has varied from about two inches (about 51 mm) or smaller in earlier times to about two and a half inches (about 64 mm) more recently.

Did your CO have a view about whether the vault was added later?

 

[Gareth Hughes]

There's also the issue of hack marks or skintlings - the marks left on the bricks while stacked for drying before being fired. Before about 1780 (in Norfolk - it varied round the country and in Suffolk the change happened 20 years earlier), a diagonal ridge was created by the stacking on the face of the brick, after that date the method of stacking changed and the marks are horizontal. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1200658 research into this as a national pattern is still rather in its infancy, though, so a lot (a century or more) may depend on the original poster's location.

 

[Jon Maine]

You perhaps cant go so accurately from the brick size as maybe they were reused from a structure just demolished which predated their use in your building by decades or a century or more.

Look at the junction between this section of brickwork and the main cellar, see if you can learn anything there.

Also examine the mortar used between the bricks, look around the area and you may see a datable structure using the same mortar which could be an indication of material availability in a certain time window.

 

[Penners]

in Suffolk the change happened 20 years earlier

Suffolk trendsetting at the forefront of technological change, as always.

Matt - I'm sure you're aware of this, but in Gareth and Jon you have two very expert opinions.

 

[MattW]

Guys, thank you for your thoughts. Just picking up on them in order. The CO felt that on balance the vault was likely to be original but this was based on a quick assessment as there was limited time and we had to cover the entire property. I didn't get the sense though this was a hard position and that they would consider the results of a much more detailed appraisal before forming a final view (i.e. totally professional approach).

Gareth - do you know if any one has done any specific research into marks on London bricks (property is in Islington)? Are there likely to be a maker's name stamped in the frog of a brick of 1830-1930?

Jon - your point is very perceptive. I think that the structure is almost certainly made of recycled brick - not all the bricks are a full 8.5" in length, with many of the rear wall being halves or partial bricks. Looking at how the cellar relates to its wider environment throws up some intriguing points:

1. The cellar fills the space between the boundary garden wall on the left and the rear extension on the right. The garden wall is 1 brick thicker along the 3m length of the cellar (partly on my side of the boundary, part on the other side) and also includes 8.5" bricks, thereafter it reverts to the normal garden wall aroudn the rest of the property that is in the standard 9" house bricks. This implies to me that the wall was rebuilt to withstand the lateral pressure of the cellar, implying the cellar came after the garden wall, but of course this could just be a later repair.

2. The railings on top of the cellar that prevent you falling into the lightwell are made of two different styles and both are completely different to any on the balconies of the house or others in the street - i.e. the railings weren't put on top of the cellar when the house was built, but it is quite possible that the original ones were lost and these are replacements.

3. The stone step out of hte extension door into the lightwell extends over an inch into the cellar wall (not sure quite how far) - perhaps indicating that the cellar wall was built on top of it, but then again perhaps it was just deeply keyed in.

4. The two houses next door lightwells are the same depth as mine would be if the cellar wasn't there and their garden walls however have not been thickened near the lightwell. I.e. my cellar is a later infill, or then again perhaps they have just had their cellars removed and their walls had never need strengthening later on.

So nothing conclusive, just a lot of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Penners]

So nothing conclusive, just a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Or, to put that another way, just like the great majority of period buildings!

 

[biffvernon]

is original or a later addition, and hence what we can do with it.

I'm not sure that whether it is original or a later addition has much bearing on the requirements of Listed Building Consent. (Unless the later addition is post-listing, which in this case it obviuosly isn't.)

Ah, skintling, from which is derived the verb, to skinkle, or set diagonally.

 

[Jon Maine]

Just examine where openings meet or sections seem to change for differences, take your time, keep looking over time, maybe things will come into perspective.

Good luck.

 

[Penners]

Ah, skintling, from which is derived the verb, to skinkle, or set diagonally.

Just one of the many colourful contributions made to the English language by builders and building.

Like 'crinkle-crankle' walls (ie: serpentine). Is that national, or East Anglian?

 

[Jon Maine]

Ah, skintling, from which is derived the verb, to skinkle, or set diagonally.

Just one of the many colourful contributions made to the English language by builders and building.

Like 'crinkle-crankle' walls (ie: serpentine). Is that national, or East Anglian?

My dictionary of archaic words attributes crinkle-crankle to the North and defines it as wrinkles.

 

[Penners]

Here in East Anglia, I've never heard it applied to anything other than serpentine walls, like this one in the Suffolk village of Easton

 

[MattW]

That is a stunning wall. Was there a practical purpose to them (i.e. effectively self-buttressing for stability) or is that purely aesthetic?

 

[Jon Maine]

I suspect it is a structural thing, it will stand up to many times the loading of a straight wall. Looks good too. I have never seen one like it around here.

 

[Moo]

There's one in Eye (Norfolk). It was the landmark that signified our imminent arrival at the dentist.

 

[Penners]

Yes, I think the purpose is both aesthetic and structural.

I've found this variation on the design, at Wroxall in Warwickshire - said to have been designed by Sir Christopher Wren. So it's clearly not just an East Anglian thing.

 

[Jon Maine]

Here in East Anglia, I've never heard it applied to anything other than serpentine walls, like this one in the Suffolk village of Easton

That is purportedly the longest in the world surrounding the village.

 

[Penners]

I'd love to build one, if I had the skills.

But I'm afraid I might crinkle when I ought to be crankling.

 

[Me!]

You just have to turn the bricks around, they crinkle on one side and crankle on the other :roll:

PS. There is a nice one in Eye - Suffolk, not sure if that is the one Moo was referring to. Maybe the thought of the dentist affected her geography?

 

[Penners]

Also in Great Yeldham, Essex, along the main road at the Haverhill end of the village.