Kitchen mold

[Cubist]

Anyhow outside I’ve found that the drain is indeed blocked. I tried clawing debris out and felt what I think is a grate. I couldn’t lift it though and the water level was still to high to see what I was doing. It felt like a land drain was also under the water pointing into the drain (ribbed plastic and filled with soil, seemingly coming from the hillside). There also seems to be three old pipes just above the water line that go into the house yet they don’t go through into the kitchen so I think water is getting through here.

It smelt quite bad too so next time, mask and something to scoop the water out - perhaps a wet vac. Due to having to climb in/out of the window it’s a real pain so I want to make sure I ‘post’ all tools I think I’ll bees through first.

I suspect you're right about the 'ridged pipe' being part of a land drain - it probably pre-dates the extension that enclosed the space. Judging by your report that its full of soil I would guess that it has not been properly installed and that it is this that is contributing material that is in turn blocking the waste water drain gulley you have also uncovered. Sadly, if you just solve the immediate problem of the blocked waste drain gulley the problem will inevitably come back. Sadly, in my opinion you also need to excavate the land drain pipe and re-install it properly. It's likely that the other end of the pipe was not blocked off nor was a permeable membrane fitted over the body of the pipe along its length - it should also have been covered with gravels of mixed grades rather than buried under soil.

Again sadly, If I am right, it could take you months simply to get the water out of the waste drain as it will simply continue to fill with water seeping through from the land drain and other sources. Better to try gently rodding out the drain gulley using a flexible rod system - you can buy or hire these - but you do need to be careful to avoid damage to any clay pipes leading to the main drainage system. If this does not work you may have to excavate around the waste gulley to remove it to clean it out properly and also to provide access to the main waste pipe so that this can be more easily rodded out.

Good luck,
Cubist

 

[Cynan]

So a guy came round, looked at the window and said he wouldn’t fit through it and tried to find the drain cover with a rod with a screw on the end. That didn’t work so I offered to get out there.

Stabbing into the pool I found a grate with a long screwdriver and got the grate up. It was a plastic cover so the drain has been replaced, I presume when a garage extension was done which I think goes over the drains route.

Getting right down into the mud, I shoved my hand down and dug out a lot of dirt. It was definitely the land drain that caused it.

So now the problem has gone - at least temporary, and the pool of water under the floor has gone. I’ll let the rest dry out now before reseating and remortaring with NHL 3.5.

Once outside has dried some more I’ll cut off these old rogue pipes as far back as I can, and seal with some NHL 5. Though I am wondering if I should then spray with some of that breathable stuff that you can get for old buildings that you spray on.

The land drain also seems to have a pit just before the drain. I assume to catch dirt. I’ve dug that out and might see if I can put some kind of filter around it to stop dirt getting into the drain... prob. just block the land drain and move the problem else where ! So perhaps not.

As for digging out the drain. Hmm. The back wall of the kitchen has a gap ranging from 1’ to 4” between it and a retaining wall so it’s not easy to get to it. The gap used to be bigger but the previous owner had the old stone wall took down and a newer, breeze block construction one built further back so they could put kitchen units down both lengths instead of one inside. The kitchen space is nice... but maintenance outside is a nightmare. The outside has a blue membrane mortared into the top of the wall and then the membrane drops down, held by its weight?! to the ground.. must be secured into the ground surely but I’ve not been able to get to it yet to find out. I assume the land drain then runs along the wall in this gap. My access to this part of the house is form a steep embankment where the soil moves, onto the kitchen roof, and then peering down into the gap. I’d nearly slipped a few times I’ve been on it already :O

At some point I’d like (get someone) to move the retaining wall back to allow more access but there is no access bring machinery in so not sure it can be done.

I’ll post some photos at the weekend for the curious.

 

[Me!]

spray with some of that breathable stuff that you can get for old buildings that you spray on.

Can you be a bit more specific about what you are referring to here please?

 

[Pennyviz]

I'm a bit confused by the land drain - do you mean off a field, joining up with your waste water pipes?

What is your sewage treatment? if it is a plant or a septic tank you may want to rethink the extra water going in there. I ask because I had all the gutters also draining into a miniscule septic tank that overflowed into a stream. Which was not very nice when it rained heavily.

Can you divert the land drain somehow?

Penny

 

[Cynan]

The sealing stuff I meant was something like Belzona 5122. So once I've cut back the old unused pipes and motared/rendered over them I was thinking of coating the wall with Belzona 5122 to provide a bit more protection. Seeing as this is in a corner, the drain could get blocked and overflow again, it might help stop water pentetrating.

The back of the house has as thick blue sheet motared into the wall. This hangs down to the ground, where I think a land drain then runs the length of the back wall, round the corner and into the kitchen drain. As far as I know the soil stacks run into the main sewers. Outside the house next door on the road there is some kind of pumping contraption for the sewer I believe.

 

[Cynan]

This is the kitchen window with a pint glass for scale that you have to climb through to get access.


Looking through the window showing the enclosed 'cave'.


This is looking outside the window to the left where you can see the retainging wall at the back and a red steel beam that suports a metal framed 'extention' above, which blocks access to this area from the outside.

 

[Cynan]

Sorry about the orientation. They show correctly when viewing them on my computer

Here is the drain after unblocking. Under the new, current white pipe, you can see some older grey pipes. There are three of these. These are what I will cut back and then render over. You can also see the land drain.


Looking again today, next to the land drain and behind the soul stack there appears to be a hole in the wall where water is getting in. Great... another job. I'll have to try and get some stone to fill that with.


This hole looks like it goes back half way through into the 18" wall.

 

[Cynan]

Here you can see the ktichen roof and the retaining wall.

The soil on top of the wall is quite steep and the soil is lose. Before we moved here it was very overgrown and we have cut all the trees down and did what we could in the summer. It's growing back at a crazy rate so next summer we need to make sure it gets sorted properly. I also need to get some ladders down there and try clear out as much rubbish that has fallen down as best I can.

The wall tie that you can see.. there are three. There was a scaffold board on top of these but putting a small amount of weight on it and it broke and fell down the gap. I assumed the ties were to support a board for ease of access to the roof, but a friend has suggested maybe its to help hold the wall up. Hmm.

You can also see the blue DPC. This is hanging lose and I assume the land drain runs under neath it, round the corner to the drain.

The white length of drain pipe has been put there to take water from the main roofs gutter and skip running over the kitchen roof as it leaks around that area at the back under heavy rain. Reroofing on the list.

 

[88v8]

Caramba, what a mess.
I suppose ideally one would cut back the bank and build a new retaining wall but that's fairly major.

If the land drain is a land drain, ie perforated pipe, when it rains enough to saturate the ground the pipe will take in water along its length which will then go... somewhere, perhaps find egress elsewhere in the retaining wall and eventually wash it out and cause a collapse.
Otoh, if it's just a drain, then whatever it's draining will flood or overflow. What is uphill?

Quite an escalation from a bit of mould under a kitchen unit.

Ivor

PS to rotate the pics, rotate them in your picture editing software and save them. Then they will really be rotated and it will be easier to climb out through that window. Although still not easy, especially after a few beers.

 

[Cynan]

Oddly the pictures show in the correct orientation on my phone when viewing this post, but not when viewing on my laptop. Weird.

Further up hill is our back garden. The slope carries on at the same angle for about 2m. Then flattens out to a path. A small wall and then a grassed area, and then another wall and another persons garden.

Come summer I will try and get a builder with dry stone wall experience out to see what they recommend but with no machine access to the back I dare say that nothing can be done. That and if the wall was pushed back then the angle of soil would probably need to be steeper to hold back the hill?

Yeah.. when we bought the place I knew the access was bad at the back, but the kitchen was clean and didn’t show any issues. The owners had said they had it tanked sometime ago and it was all ok. I know all houses have issues, and honestly I’m not regretting the purchase.. there have just been more things to do then I had thought. The house is lovely and there are some really nice features inside.

In the below you can see the top of our garden covered in grass, and then looking down at the house and the soil/slope. The channel in the soil is where I’ve discovered a buried retaining wall. I intend to remove some of the lower soil to restore what I think was an older terrace and provide safer access to the back of the house. You can also see what I’d call a bolt on metal frame extension. I assume it was done this way for a cheap extra room. I’d like to get rid of this at some point as it doesn’t fit in with the house at all.





From right to left: neighbours house with this extension, our (original) house and then our large extension with the bolt on added later.

 

[Cynan]

We will get there in the end

This is the front, to show it’s not all doom and gloom!

 

[88v8]

Oddly the pictures show in the correct orientation on my phone when viewing this post, but not when viewing on my laptop. Weird.

Further up hill is our back garden. The slope carries on at the same angle for about 2m. Then flattens out to a path. A small wall and then a grassed area, and then another wall and another persons garden.

... if the wall was pushed back then the angle of soil would probably need to be steeper to hold back the hill?

Very nice. Is that a nitida hedge?

Ahhh, a phone. My phone doesn't take pictures, and if it did, the cord isn't very long.

There is progress with your latest pics in terms of orientation, as you will see when you view them on the computer.

Yes, the soil steeper. Or the wall higher in which case the slope could be the same. But the higher it is the thicker the wall needs to be, or the greater the batter.

Uphill, I was expecting a farm or the like. I wonder then what that corrugated pipe is draining.

Machine access... in recent years we had a lot of excavation at the back of our cottage. Ground lowering and a French drain and drystone retaining wall, then again for a small sunken room. More than ten tons of soil went out and a similar weight of stone and concrete and brick came in. It all had to be carried down and up the front steps, then down the drive to a skip, a 20ft rise and 100ft along. Two/three blokes and a wheelbarrow.
Our houses were built without machines.

Ivor