Kitchen mold

[Cynan]

Another day, another problem ..

We have a stone floor, which I plan on chipping out redoing the mortar, but on the whole the floor seemed fine until the new kitchen went in and roll on a couple of months...

Stared noticing some of the mortar near one of the cupboards looking damp. At first I thought this was due to a leaking roof so got that fixed and waited to see if the problem went away. It hasn’t.

So today I removed the kickboard (really should have done this sooner but it was in tight and hard to get out without breaking it).

What I’ve found is that there appears to be no damp behind the unit and it’s just the mortar in front and the damp appears to have been absorbed by the MDF kickbiard (why wasn’t the edge protected ?!) with a load of green furry mold on the back.

I’m guessing th correct answer here is to replace all the cupboard legs with stainless steal and keep the bottoms open ? Or seal the kickbiard bottoms,fit vents and put them back? What has everyone else done in their kitchen with stone floors?

Thank you.

 

[Cubist]

Hi Cynan,

MDF and the particle boards most kitchen cabinets are constructed from are notorious for attracting damp from surrounding surfaces. They can also be difficult to seal effectively. Personally I would simply get rid of the kick-boards and replace the legs.

But where the damp is coming from would be my key worry in your situation as it sounds to me like the kick-boards have absorbed moisture from direct contact with the stone floor. If thats the case then you may not be able to do anything about it except to dig up the floor to install a damp-proof membrane - but that can cause other problems.

My money says go with your plan to get some nice legs on the cabinets.

Cheers,

Cubist

 

[88v8]

Yes, MDF and particle board are like a sponge.

The floor has to breathe. Same will apply to any other rooms with a stone floor. No furniture with a plinth. No legless settees. No pouffes.

You could try hardwood plinths with lots of brass vents, but what are the cupboard bottoms made of. Hmmm.

However, look on the bright side - the kitchen designer has been eco-friendly and created the ideal habitat for mould.

Ivor

 

[Pennyviz]

Would fitting a plinth heater help in order to increase air flow?

Penny

 

[Andys]

Our fitted kitchen cupboards were getting a musty smell which we seem to have cured by fitting vents in the kickboards and in each cupboard-back for all-round ventilation of the hidden spaces.
I'm not sure whether this would be enough if the kickboards were in contact with a damp floor though...

 

[88v8]

Would fitting a plinth heater help in order to increase air flow? Penny

Yes, but only as far as the nearest vent.

Ivor

 

[parkview094]

You can get clear or coloured sealing strips that go along the bottom of the MDF plinth to help guard against sucking up moisture. B&Q sell them:
https://www.diy.com/departments/homelux-plinth-fixing-l-1830mm/37703_BQ.prd

 

[Flyfisher]

At first I thought this was due to a leaking roof so got that fixed and waited to see if the problem went away. It hasn’t.

How long ago was the leaking roof fixed?

Assuming it had been leaking for some time it could be that the affected wall is saturated, and walls can take a long time to fully dry out. A rule of thumb often mentioned on here is one month for each inch-thickness of wall, thus a saturated nine inch wall might take up to nine months to fully dry out. Maybe just leave the kickboard(s) off for a while to ensure good under-unit ventilation and wait?

Another thought . . . is the kitchen top properly sealed against the wall, especially around the sink area? Could this be a source of water seeping down the wall behind the kitchen units and raising the local humidity thus encouraging that mould growth?

 

[noj]

Possibly all you need is to allow a little air movement under the plinth. Something as simple as these https://www.vital-parts.co.uk/nail-on-glides---nai001-5506-p.asp on the bottom of the plinth could break the contact with the stone and allow just enough airflow to stop the rot...

Putting some vents higher up the plinths too would allow air circulation if that didn't prove to be enough. Worth a try before taking everything apart and replacing the legs

 

[Cynan]

As always, thank you all for your insights.

I’m liking the idea of the nail in glides as it keeps the appearance, so I’ll try these abs keep an eye on the situation. It it doesn’t solve things then I’ll look into putting more ventilation in.

Thanks.

 

[malcolm]

It would be worth cutting down the covers down to allow a gap at the top too - it shouldn't be visible assuming the covers are recessed a little, but would allow some more ventilation.

 

[Cynan]

Just an update for everyone.. in case any are interested :wink:

I trimmed the kickboards down and waited for things to dry out and make sure the kitchen roof was fixed. It’s been a while since we have had heavy rain and unfortunately it’s still a problem. So it’s looking like we will get the roof completely redone. This is a ground flood side extension to the original property so shouldn’t be too costly, though the angle is just about 12 degrees and we have been recommended putting a rubber membrane down and laying the stone tiles on top to maintain the appearance.

Back in the kitchen one of our flags became lose and I noticed I could rock it and hear water. I dug out the mortar which was soft and discovered water underneath, on top of about 2cm of sand and a blue membrane. There also appeared to be two live worms.

So either the water from the roof has been leaking down on top of the membrane, or the membrane is broken somewhere or not fitted right. Getting a builder out to take a look soon for their recommendations. I’m guessing the kitchen has to come out, whole floor up and start again :shock:

 

[88v8]

Oh dear. Were the worms edible?

Yes, we are always interested in outcomes.

The blue membrane sounds like a futile attempt to shut damp out. In this case, it's become a pond liner.
The trouble with builders and damp, is finding one who actually knows what they are doing. Any fool can appear to cure a problem when the materials are new and dry.
Update your Profile to show your location, perhaps someone can recommend.

First thing is to determine where and why the water is getting in. Roof, ground levels, inappropriate dpm, gutters downpipes cracked drainage, the usual the usual.

Ivor

 

[Cynan]

Hopefully it’s the roof ... fingers crossed!

And profile updated. I’m in Holmfirth, Yorkshire.

 

[Cubist]

Just make sure not to use that infamous building outfit Cleggy, Foggy and Co.

 

[Cynan]

It seemed to be drying out over the last few days but then I noticed it started filling up again - after I’d been running the kitchen tap for a while.

Checked underneath and can’t see any drips from the pipe work so perhaps the pipe is leaking as it passes though the 18” wall to the drain right outside, or the drain itself has a problem.

Guessing it’s only shown up now after leaving in the house for the last few years due to the ground slowly becoming more saturated that it can’t handle anymore water and now it’s finding its way in.

Whilst I wait for someone to come round to take a look (builders are never fast are they!) im going to let it dry out again and then tip water down the drain several times. If that doesn’t affect it I’ll try the kitchen tap again to try see narrow down where the problem is.

 

[Pennyviz]

I discovered that the clay drain gulley, if that's the right term - where all the dishwasher/washing machine and sink go into just outside the kitchen window, was cracked. Could only see it by excavating sadly.


Penny

 

[88v8]

Ha!
Good bit of sleuthing.

Couple of months and it should dry out.

While you're on the case you might check where the (clay) drain goes from the gulley.

Ivor

 

[Cynan]

The way the house is built and has been extended it’s now only possible to get to the kitchen drain by squeezing through a narrow but long window and climbing into a sort of cave. The house is built into a hillside and the first floor has been extended over the top of what I assume was a small courtyard, about 2x1.5m. It looks like the window was once three... but at some point changed to one.

Anyhow outside I’ve found that the drain is indeed blocked. I tried clawing debris out and felt what I think is a grate. I couldn’t lift it though and the water level was still to high to see what I was doing. It felt like a land drain was also under the water pointing into the drain (ribbed plastic and filled with soil, seemingly coming from the hillside). There also seems to be three old pipes just above the water line that go into the house yet they don’t go through into the kitchen so I think water is getting through here.

It smelt quite bad too so next time, mask and something to scoop the water out - perhaps a wet vac. Due to having to climb in/out of the window it’s a real pain so I want to make sure I ‘post’ all tools I think I’ll bees through first.

Hopefully I can clear the blockage and then I can try remove or cut back the old pipes and fill with something appropriate.

So I think this is good news. I don’t think the kitchen will need to come out and the floor won’t all have to come up :?

 

[Pennyviz]

Hopefully that is your answer then.

Be careful if you get one of those pressure cleaners in to sort out pipes as I suspect that or overenthusiatic ramming is what cracked the bottom of my gully.

Because it had been going on for so long and I have very thick walls, at the bottom especially, and then had permeated through under a sealed floor to an interior wall it took about a year to dry out.

Good luck!

Penny