I've Got a Crack!

[JohnB]

This cable doesn't obviously go anywhere. There's nothing above or below it, or even anywhere on the whole wall! This part of the house has been rewired, but not connected to the supply. I've no idea what other interesting features I'll find!

 

[JohnB]

I took more of the render off this afternoon, so I could see the other end of the lintel. That seems to be ok, and is resting on what looks like a concrete pillar:
View attachment 2
This is the underside of the lintel:
View attachment 1
This is a close up of the right hand end:

It looks to me like the lintel has been cast in place, and the right hand end is breaking up. It looks like the left hand side of the doorway has a concrete pillar cast in place, and the right hand side part of one. Does that make sense? I don't know when it would have been done, but certainly before it was rendered 40 odd years ago.

 

[JohnB]

I took off the plaster from those cables to the doorway:
View attachment 1
This is the inside of the doorway:

What I've hacked into looks like it could be a lintel. It's very soft, and felt like I was taking off cement under the skim coat. I'm trying to work out how the beams are supported above the doorway and the windows in this part of the house, as the bottom of the beam is in line with the bottom of the lintel. The beam in the photo has a notch out of the bottom, but I can't see what it's resting on!

 

[JohnB]

So you know a bit more about the place, this is the front in 1967:
View attachment 1
and now:

The problem we're discussing is on the other side.

 

[MdB]

Just another guess. Have you got an RSJ hidden underneath all that concrete? I hope you do.

An RSJ would support that beam sensibly and it would explain why the concrete you can see was cast in situ, why it doesn't appear to be supported at one end and why the concrete isn't of a great quality.

If you don't, then you have a lot of the same problems that we had (beams not being supported by anything sensible, dodgy lintels and dodgy concrete). What you certainly don't want is our solution to these problems....

 

[JohnB]

Just another guess. Have you got an RSJ hidden underneath all that concrete? I hope you do.

Is this the builders version of Russian Roulette? Take out the concrete to see if there's an RSJ. If there is, you're ok, if there isn't, the house falls down :roll:

 

[MdB]

The house falling down bit is definitely something to avoid....

I would try and see what you can find down the side of that beam. A long thin screwdriver might hit something metallic if there is a gap and you are lucky. It might also be worth trying a multifunction stud detector (on the metal setting) if you have one though I'm not sure at what distance they will pick up a large chunk of metal through concrete.

You are right though in that you don't want to start eating into the concrete just to see what is inside. Having half the lintel fall on your head can only be made worse by it being followed by half the wall.

 

[Pford75]

As far as the current regs are concerned, I believe it is perfectly legal as long as there is a fitting in line with the cables AND all the wires are connected to a RCD. I would welcome corrections on this if I'm wrong. I've no idea what the regs would have been when those wires were installed though.

Well, the current regs would also require that the work was undertaken by a professional/competent person and certified....which this certainly wasn't. Whilst I know most on the forum regard the regs as a pain...they would eliminate this sort of bodge.

 

[Lime]

As far as the current regs are concerned, I believe it is perfectly legal as long as there is a fitting in line with the cables AND all the wires are connected to a RCD. I would welcome corrections on this if I'm wrong. I've no idea what the regs would have been when those wires were installed though.

Well, the current regs would also require that the work was undertaken by a professional/competent person and certified....which this certainly wasn't. Whilst I know most on the forum regard the regs as a pain...they would eliminate this sort of bodge.

The regulations don't state that.
Elecrical work can be undertaken by anyone as long as the work conforms to the IEEE (IET) 17th Regulations.
Also there are particular areas within a domestic dwelling covered by the building regulations that require notification before commencement of electrical work (Part P) with LBC unless registered and approved.

 

[Flyfisher]

Whilst I know most on the forum regard the regs as a pain...they would eliminate this sort of bodge.

. . . . assuming people always follow the regs of course. Who was it who said "laws are only for the law-abiding" ?

 

[Lime]

When working on the structure of a building the unexpected can happen.
The discovery of wiring, piping and other unexpected components is not that unusual.

In this case what has been discovered is very dangerous.
Don't get distracted from what is important.

I'm talking about the lintel.

The assumption of a metal lintel hidden within is baseless.
There is no idication that a metal lintel is in place but every indication that the main concrete lintel is unsupported except by the flimsiest of materials.
What has to happen before you believe your own eyes?

 

[JohnB]

When working on the structure of a building the unexpected can happen.
The discovery of wiring, piping and other unexpected components is not that unusual.

In this case what has been discovered is very dangerous.
Don't get distracted from what is important.

I'm talking about the lintel.

The assumption of a metal lintel hidden within is baseless.
There is no idication that a metal lintel is in place but every indication that the main concrete lintel is unsupported except by the flimsiest of materials.
What has to happen before you believe your own eyes?

I'm not bothered about the wiring. Once I've made my plans it will have to be redone anyway. It's good to know that it is only cables, and not a structural fault. I've just got to find out who the good local builders who can be trusted with old buildings are. I've contacted one, and am waiting for a reply.

 

[MdB]

The assumption of a metal lintel hidden within is baseless.

It was not an assumption. It was a guess by myself.

IF my guess is correct then it will save an awful lot of reconstruction / repair work so it is worth spending 5 minutes to see if one can easily be detected.

I can't believe that any builder, however dodgy, would go to all the effort of casting a lintel in situ whilst only having a 20mm (or whatever it is) overlap at one end. I am sure that there is something else going on which is actually taking the strain. Finding out what is the important part, though how this can be done without weakening the current structure is not obvious.

 

[AMc]

If it were mine (and with the greatest respect I'm glad it isn't) I would get an experienced builder or a structural engineer to take a look right now or get to the nearest equipment hire shop and hire a couple of acro props and a scaffold deal to support the floor above internally until you can get a proper opinion on site. It's all well and good asking an internet forum for advice but removing that cement render may have weakened what already looks to be a fairly poorly supported wall and floor above.

If you are feeling brave (or perhaps crazy?) you could try and drill hole through the centre of the 'lintel' towards the end where it's crumbly anyway. I'd use the longest, thinnest masonry bit I could and avoiding hammer action. If you get more than halfway through without hitting something metal that stops the bit then I doubt there is any substance in it at all.

I would be mentally preparing to pay to prop the beams supporting the floor above and put in a proper steel or concrete lintel in place as a matter of urgency.

Good luck and keep posting!

 

[JohnB]

Good luck and keep posting!

So I need to post something every few hours to show it hasn't fallen on me :lol:

 

[ilona73]

Good luck and keep posting!

So I need to post something every few hours to show it hasn't fallen on me :lol:

dead right we need to know it hans't fallen on top of you and you are still alive and kicking... but not kickin anything you shouldn't be obviously ! hahaha :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Inspector John]

I would put two pins (RSJ's about 4ft length) and support with 4 acrows the loading above the opening Cut out and remove so called lintel repalce with new 6 inch depth concrete lintel(s) or if you prefer RSJ with minimum 6inches bearing either side fill in above the lintels to the pins leave to bake for a day or two then remove pins and acrows fill in job done and if you don't know where the power is coming from get a sparky to check and isolate

 

[Lime]

Baking time is longer if you bake with lime.

 

[Inspector John]

Oops! wrong ingredients...Old habits