It's only little...but I have my first Oak window!

[Tom]

My first Oak window has gone in!!! It's in the little window we found when we removed the cement render from the outside. We didn't know we had this, as the whole of the wall it's on has had an inner 'skin' of brick added at some stage. Of course, when we found it, we'd already had all the plastering done inside so we had to cut through and still need to finish it off but I think the little window is beautiful...

 

[MdB]

Nice find and nice window. We have neither :-(

 

[JoceAndChris]

Lovely little mullion, and at the risk of "picking the scab off fresh wounds and passing round the salt", this is what your house would have had all over, with some sort of multiple light type casement.

Have a look at Jon Maine's lovely pics of a similarly aged house. ( I think )

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/m/viewer#photo/jonmaine/5342036541842582753/5342036539954762850

I'd be really, really interested to know what Biff's solution for your windows would be, as I know he doesn't do slavish repro, but can capture an appropriate mood very well with double glazed units.

 

[LadyArowana]

I couldn't get the Picasa link to work, but I think this is the link for the house http://merchants-house.co.uk/ and then some other pix here http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/jonmaine

 

[Penners]

It's always exciting to find hidden details in a period property, and particularly satisfying to bring them back into use.

Did you add the horizontal metal bar, or was it there already? If the latter, I wonder what its function was.

 

[Tom]

@ Joce.....This little window doesn't have a mullion. Mullions are the vertical parts of a window, which divide adjacent units. I don't know if the same term is used for horizontal dividers.

@ Penners.....The metal bar is a wall tie. It runs through the house from front to back, behind the inner brick 'skin' wall.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Oops! I now officially give up on being able to use architectural terminology correctly - I mean the stone surround to the window - not the dividing components. That's what I think your house had originally. :?

 

[Tom]

:lol: Don't worry, I'll let you off

You can see the remains of one of the front windows here. The mullions had been smashed out and used as the footings for the chimney breast that divided the living room :shock: After we found them, we had the stonemason reshape them to use in other areas of the house so that the stone stayed in the house.

For anyone who doesn't know, I am not responsible for the windows being the shape they are now!

 

[JoceAndChris]

It's just unbelievable that they smashed out the mullions isn't it. Who would do that, and why? I'm not doubting you Jaqy, I'm just bewildered that anyone at any period of history would have looked at nice stone windows and thought "hmm, I'll smash those out and use them as building rubble" :shock: :?

 

[Tom]

It is bewildering, you're right. And here's a couple of pictures of them as we found them laid in the ground as part of the foundations. And another one, once we'd got some of them out ready to re-use.

 

[judrop]

Small but perfectly formed, and a delight to behold WELL DONE ! :wink:

 

[Gareth Hughes]

:lol: Don't worry, I'll let you off

You can see the remains of one of the front windows here. The mullions had been smashed out and used as the footings for the chimney breast that divided the living room :shock: After we found them, we had the stonemason reshape them to use in other areas of the house so that the stone stayed in the house.

So, at some stage in its life, the house had its windows changed. Any evidence as to why? Fashion? (a change to sash windows in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, perhaps?), the Civil War, which raged pretty close? And when and why was the chimney added? All part of the history of the house which I don't for a moment doubt you've carefully researched and taken into account in the current transformation.
Are the "reshaped" mullions still recognisable as mullions, or are they just bits of reused stone now?

 

[Tom]

I do feel as though I'm having to justify everything I've done with this house but here we go.

So, at some stage in its life, the house had its windows changed. Any evidence as to why? Fashion? (a change to sash windows in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, perhaps?), the Civil War, which raged pretty close?

Yes, the windows were changed. Why? I have no idea. Fashion? Probably. The Civil War? That could have been why it was smashed up. Who knows?

And when and why was the chimney added?

No idea.

All part of the history of the house which I don't for a moment doubt you've carefully researched and taken into account in the current transformation.

As the house isn't listed there's very little history about it. There are no houses around here like it. If we hadn't bought it, it would have been demolished. So, really, anything we've done to it is better than it being razed to the ground. No?

Are the "reshaped" mullions still recognisable as mullions, or are they just bits of reused stone now?

I didn't say we'd 'reshaped' the mullions. I said they'd been used elsewhere in the house. The stone was very crumbly, bits fell off and some broke in half.....even though we tried to remove them as carefully as possible. The stone was reused for infill bits in places such as around the windows where bits were missing and one was used as part of the string course. So yes, I guess in your words, they're just 'bits of reused stone'. But, better to keep them with the house than dispose of and buy new, surely?

 

[robgil]

regarding the chimney DWB , it is possible sometimes to date them if you had time and patience to do some research but obviously different circumstances could make it easier or harder to do , for a start you could compare the brick work to brick work in other parts of the house or even the garden perhaps? do they match? you could measure the bricks and look at how they were constructed and what bond they were laid in , the fire place mouth can give clues as can the mortar used. i am no expert by any means but i have been able to date mine along with other brick work in the house and its really raised a few very important points regarding the houses history , for instance one half of the house is built with Tudor bricks with quite odd dimensions (even for tudor bricks apparently) in an english bond however the other half is built with totally different Georgian bricks in a bond ive never seen before on any tinternet brick bond history site (so if anyone wants to help me out id be happy to show you the bond pattern), even the plinths beneath the walls which would indicate either the house was extended or rebuilt at some point. personally i think one half of it it burned down at some point but i think i will get a second opinion before writing anything in stone ,it would be a nice feeling if im right.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

I do feel as though I'm having to justify everything I've done with this house but here we go.

So, at some stage in its life, the house had its windows changed. Any evidence as to why? Fashion? (a change to sash windows in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, perhaps?), the Civil War, which raged pretty close?

Yes, the windows were changed. Why? I have no idea. Fashion? Probably. The Civil War? That could have been why it was smashed up. Who knows?

And when and why was the chimney added?

No idea.

All part of the history of the house which I don't for a moment doubt you've carefully researched and taken into account in the current transformation.

As the house isn't listed there's very little history about it. There are no houses around here like it. If we hadn't bought it, it would have been demolished. So, really, anything we've done to it is better than it being razed to the ground. No?

Are the "reshaped" mullions still recognisable as mullions, or are they just bits of reused stone now?

I didn't say we'd 'reshaped' the mullions. I said they'd been used elsewhere in the house. The stone was very crumbly, bits fell off and some broke in half.....even though we tried to remove them as carefully as possible. The stone was reused for infill bits in places such as around the windows where bits were missing and one was used as part of the string course. So yes, I guess in your words, they're just 'bits of reused stone'. But, better to keep them with the house than dispose of and buy new, surely?

(opens large pot of salt and prepares, with some reluctance, to reopen old wound)

So you don't know about the history of the house (though funnily enough, not being listed doesn't mean it doesn't have a recorded, or researchable, history), and obviously from what you've just posted you wouldn't find it of any interest even if you did.

And your specific statement was that you had the stonemason reshape the mullions. In what way is that "I didn't say we'd 'reshaped' the mullions"?

Add to the enthusiasm for just getting going with the kango and the total lack of interest in the history of the house, the crazy-paving quality of the inauthentic internal exposed stonework, the disco lights, the fact that I cannot work out what at all you are aiming for and have no clear sense of vision, and the likelihood that a great deal that was of interest has been destroyed without the slightest care (even if you didn't retain it in the end, that should have been a well-informed decision, not a whim) and I hope that answers the question of how you have ruined a potentially interesting house.

Had we not come across you on this forum and just seen your project on Grand Designs I suspect you'd get a lot more criticism from forum members than you do.

 

[essexbearhunter]

I do feel as though I'm having to justify everything I've done with this house but here we go.

Please don't feel under attack -I am sure nothing accusatorial is intended.
Gareth's comments were made from a scholarly /professional perspective and invite you down trails that might be of help in answering your own questions regarding the house. Some/many trails (as you have found) come to a dead end through lack of information but may suddenly re-open with new finds.

Personally, I am enormously jealous at you having an in-situ stone window AND having found sections of another one :mrgreen:

 

[robgil]

finding an original window in this house would make me jump with joy, perhaps even crack open the baileys..

 

[Tom]

Small but perfectly formed, and a delight to behold WELL DONE ! :wink:

Thank you so much

 

[Tom]

Gareth, I'm not answering your posts any more. I am not prepared to upset other people. Work it out.

For those who are interested, I have very detailed records (photos, video, written) of everything we've done to this house, the trades-people used and bodies consulted, from the very beginning. Most of what you see in the pictures was there when we bought the house, apart from the plastic windows. Almost ALL the stone was there. The only bits we've replaced are some corner stones, some Blue Lias, pieces around the front door, both fireplace lintels, a window lintel....in fact, it's quite obvious what we've replaced because it looks new. The reason we've replaced them is because the needed replacing; either having been hacked to bits or failing because of being blown behind the render.

If I come across as 'can't be bothered to answer' it's because I'm extremely busy, as most of us are, and I have absolutely no obligation to defend myself against anyone. My house is open to anyone who would like to come and criticise it but if you come with the intention of upsetting me....forget it. This house would be a pile of rubble by now if we hadn't bought it so if what I've done doesn't meet with purist approval....tough!!!

 

[Gareth Hughes]

Gareth, I'm not answering your posts any more.

No change there then. You've never actually "answered" any of my posts, just diverted attention to other things. So, for example, you now talk about the stone you've replaced, whereas I was critical of the stone you've exposed. But if you don't want criticism, don't ask what the problem is.

I'm very busy too, but a lot of my time is spent sorting out the sort of mess you are posting pictures of here, which lead people to the misleading impression that this is how to treat a period property.