Is it really worth it? We’re all doomed anyway

[michael]

Couldn’t sleep last night, so I ended up watching a late edition of one of Professor Brian Cox’s astronomy programs. Apparently due to “The second law of thermodynamics”, “Entropy” and the “Thermodynamic arrow of time”, everything is doomed.
All matter in the known universe is slowly rotting away and disintegrating and nothing can escape it. Eventually there will just be a dark void of nothing.

Is it really worth looking after these old buildings?

 

[Flyfisher]

There's probably a witty answer but I think I've lost the will to live after reading the question.

 

[CliffordPope]

Read the Horse's Mouth by Joyce Cary, and you will see why painting a mural on a condemned building matters.

 

[Penners]

Entropy (if I understand the concept correctly) is the tendency of everything eventually to resolve itself into chaos.

My workshop is the ultimate proof of the theory.

 

[michael]

According to Professor Cox, although we may think that we're evolving and progressing, the universe is moving steadily from its creation to its demise because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Cosmologists like Professor Cox believe in a hypothesis known as 'heat death'. This states that everything in the universe is moving towards becoming a uniform temperature, at which point there will be no more stars, no more black holes. No more anything.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics :

The Second Law of Thermodynamics, which is also known as the Law of Entropy, was initially formulated in the nineteenth century by scientists and engineers who were working on the development of more efficient steam engines. The Law states that our world, when left to itself, always behaves in such a way as to increase entropy. The term entropy has specialised meanings in the context of thermodynamics and cosmology, but it can be defined basically as the tendency of everything to move from order to decay. If you put a glass of hot water in a cold room, the heat flows out of the water - in other words, the heat 'decays' - into the air of the room until they are both at the same temperature, at which point the flow stops. This is the point of maximum entropy. In the same way, the heat of our sun and the other stars is flowing outwards until a state of uniform temperature is reached. We are billions of years away from this, but, according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, it is inexorable.

Professor Cox uses a sandcastle to demonstrate the Second Law of Thermodynamics. A sandcastle is a highly-ordered structure; that is to say, it is in a state of low entropy. However, once it has been built and if it isn't maintained, it inevitably crumbles back into a pile of sand. All the physical laws of the world act upon it to return it to maximum entropy. Entropy is the natural condition of everything.

The Arrow of Time
This universal law, that our world always behaves to increase entropy, is used to explain the Arrow of Time. The Arrow of Time says that time always moves in one direction, from the past to the future. And it always moves in this direction because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The sandcastle is unable to spontaneously rebuild itself, even though its constituent grains of sand are still there.

We’ve certainly got our work cut out in trying to preserve these old buildings then?

 

[Flyfisher]

Or, as summarised by CP Snow:

1. You can't win; you can only break even
2. You can only break even at absolute zero
3. You can't reach absolute zero

NB: There's also a 'zeroth' law which, in the spirit of the above, states that you must play the game in the first place.

 

[Nigel Watts]

I think this sums it up quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtEqn-5XHpU

 

[Penners]

I can also sum it all up, in rather more mundane terms:

Why bother to tidy up my workshop? It'll only untidy itself again.

 

[middi]

We haven't a clue as to what will happen in the next fifty years let alone 50 milion or 5 bilion.

Don't panic, it was only 40 years ago that commander Kirk had to use a cassette tape to upload data into the Enterprise super computer, look how much we have progressed since then.

WE HAVE THE ANSWER, regardless of the laws of physics, as we understand them, we will be part of the scrap heap

middi

 

[Penners]

commander Kirk

On a point of order, Mr Chairman, I believe James Tiberius Kirk was, in fact, a full captain.



Sad, en' I? :roll:

 

[michael]

Further to Middi's comment "WE HAVE THE ANSWER, regardless of the laws of physics, as we understand them, we will be part of the scrap heap"

I think Professor Cox also said “Life is the conscience of the Universe” its how the universe is able to explain itself.

Getting a bit deep now!

 

[michael]

Conscience?
Consciousness?

 

[michael]

The main point is :- That old beam, window or stonework in your home is naturally trying to reach the point of maximum entropy. You can try and delay it from doing so but you can’t stop it. You’re in a loosing battle as I discover every time I walk around my home and find something else that needs repairing or replacing.

 

[Penners]

I think Professor Cox also said “Life is the conscience of the Universe” its how the universe is able to explain itself.

Oh, come on! If the universe felt the need to explain itself (to whom, I wonder?), it could do a damn' sight better than using the human race as its mouthpiece.

We don't have the vaguest idea how to explain it. We come up with all kinds of scientific-sounding inventions, like "dark matter" and "dark energy" to try to explain the glaring (black?) holes in out knowledge, but actually we might just as well call them "stuff" and "puff".

 

[Flyfisher]

it was only 40 years ago that commander Kirk had to use a cassette tape to upload data into the Enterprise super computer, look how much we have progressed since then.

. . . and their sliding doors had a funny squeak. But we have WD40.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think Professor Cox also said “Life is the conscience of the Universe” its how the universe is able to explain itself.

Oh, come on! If the universe felt the need to explain itself (to whom, I wonder?), it could do a damn' sight better than using the human race as its mouthpiece.

Patience, Penners. We're probably just an intermediate step in the universe's grand scheme to explain itself. Good point about the audience though. :lol:

 

[michael]

Yes, but give us a chance! We’ve only been here for a nano second of the universe’s existence and we’ve done pretty well so far.
And who’s to say that there aren’t other life forms out there amongst the 200 billion stars in each of the 100 billion galaxies (that we know of) that have given up trying to repair their 18th century cottages and have moved on to much greater things/

 

[Nigel Watts]

or that the Big Bang wasn't just one of a vast number of similar quantum mechanical events which spontaneously gave rise to the space time bubble which we call our universe...

 

[middi]

I second Penners "we don't have the vaguest idea" scenario.

This includes the excelent scientists that are trying tp make sense of it all. The problem we have is that if we could travel as far as our immagination and at the same speed as we can think we woud reach the outer edge of the known universe in a split second. Once there the problems start, hence the obvious question " where does it all end" , well, regardless of what the scientists work out with their illustrious physics calculation they have to calculate , or figure out, what exists at the other side of infinity. impossible problem to solve with our kind of calculations.
Still, no reason to stop thinking that is our job.y
Middi

 

[Nigel Watts]

Relativity theory indicates that there are no "outer edges" to our universe. Three dimensional space is "curved", but not in way we can visualise. Thus if we were to set off into space in one direction, travelling in a straight line, we would eventually end up back where we started, rather as we would on the surface of the earth.